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Thread: Eight F-16s will be sold to Pakistan, Congress told

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  1. #21
    Senior Member Sinbad's Avatar
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    Re: Eight F-16s will be sold to Pakistan, Congress told

    Quote Originally Posted by Mohan Tiwari View Post
    In 2016,India is 7th largest economy via Nominal terms and it is only growing into top 4 club with in 5-6years- India will continue to pressurize US & ensure that terrorist promoters remain isolated---Look how China force US to deny weapons to Taiwan--In next 10yrs, except China:Pak would have no takers
    Deep penetrating butt hurt today mohan. Get used to it.
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  2. #22
    Elite Member sparkling's Avatar
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    Re: Eight F-16s will be sold to Pakistan, Congress told

    Americans have made the correct decision.

  3. #23
    Elite Member sparkling's Avatar
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    Re: Eight F-16s will be sold to Pakistan, Congress told

    Quote Originally Posted by Sinbad View Post
    Deep penetrating butt hurt today mohan. Get used to it.
    He has gone off in a storm.

  4. #24
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    Re: Eight F-16s will be sold to Pakistan, Congress told

    Quote Originally Posted by Mohan Tiwari View Post
    In 2016,India is 7th largest economy via Nominal terms and it is only growing into top 4 club with in 5-6years- India will continue to pressurize US & ensure that terrorist promoters remain isolated---Look how China force US to deny weapons to Taiwan--In next 10yrs, except China:Pak would have no takers
    Here we are back with your personal dreams and how world politics works. I don't think that Pakistan owns the USA like Israel does. bu we are masters in managing worst situations. All I see is India slowly becoming less and less important in the region and now even in the world.Bollywood dreams do not sell that good I guess...

  5. #25
    Senior Member Mohan Tiwari's Avatar
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    Re: Eight F-16s will be sold to Pakistan, Congress told

    Quote Originally Posted by Munir View Post
    Here we are back with your personal dreams and how world politics works. I don't think that Pakistan owns the USA like Israel does. bu we are masters in managing worst situations. All I see is India slowly becoming less and less important in the region and now even in the world.Bollywood dreams do not sell that good I guess...
    Pak is a able to extort those weapons as long as US is tied to afghan mess.
    contrary to your assertions it's pak which has lost from being american ally to a part time transactional friend.

    India is promoted to global arena. India plays major role in recent climate deal.

    India is already top 2consumer of raw materials such as coal, steel.
    It is 3rd biggest consumer of crude oil.FDI to india crossed 50 billion $ in 2015.American companies put in 10 billion $ alone

    US interest in Pak is to get some stability in Afghanistan.
    Once they depart from Afghanistan then all your aid will be frozen.
    See year 2018 and pak influence will be reduced in west.
    All of it depends on pak support to cross border terrorism. Stop bothering us with jehadi camps and Indian media, govt would not care about your purchases

  6. #26
    Member Munir's Avatar
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    Re: Eight F-16s will be sold to Pakistan, Congress told

    Quote Originally Posted by Mohan Tiwari View Post
    Pak is a able to extort those weapons as long as US is tied to afghan mess.
    contrary to your assertions it's pak which has lost from being american ally to a part time transactional friend.

    India is promoted to global arena. India plays major role in recent climate deal.

    India is already top 2consumer of raw materials such as coal, steel.
    It is 3rd biggest consumer of crude oil.FDI to india crossed 50 billion $ in 2015.American companies put in 10 billion $ alone

    US interest in Pak is to get some stability in Afghanistan.
    Once they depart from Afghanistan then all your aid will be frozen.
    See year 2018 and pak influence will be reduced in west.
    All of it depends on pak support to cross border terrorism. Stop bothering us with jehadi camps and Indian media, govt would not care about your purchases
    Whether Pakistan is extorting or not it has a lot less value then Pakistani's... You said it yourself. You are just smiled at because USA does not want Russia or China to become near Indian Ocean. And those "deals" are either not coming or so damn slowly that you harldy call them deals but pain in the AXXSSES.Name a nation that loves the deals with India... LOL.

    And yes. You are spreading terror in Afghanistan while we can bring peace and stabilty...

  7. #27
    Senior Member Mohan Tiwari's Avatar
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    Re: Eight F-16s will be sold to Pakistan, Congress told

    Quote Originally Posted by Munir View Post
    Whether Pakistan is extorting or not it has a lot less value then Pakistani's... You said it yourself. You are just smiled at because USA does not want Russia or China to become near Indian Ocean. And those "deals" are either not coming or so damn slowly that you harldy call them deals but pain in the AXXSSES.Name a nation that loves the deals with India... LOL.

    And yes. You are spreading terror in Afghanistan while we can bring peace and stabilty...
    1. Pak has indeed been the most reliable ally. Ask 60 million afghani and their govt...The all love Pakistan positive role in cleansing terrorism from afghanistan! By the way; peaceful Taliban proxies have killed 5000 ISAF soldiers. The current Afgani taliban leadership resides in pak.
    Pak had played double game in Afghanistan for 15 yrs. US indeed have such high tolerance for Pakistan!! Any other super power would have bombed Pak to stone age!



    2.India have a capable R&D program,spending 1% of Gdp on R&D. Indian filed 5th max patents, published 5th max research papers.
    India can pretty much develop everything----(minus some top niche tech)
    3. India & US does have converging interests..US have agreed to share some Engine technology and nuclear propulsion-EMALS aircraft propulsion technology which have development plan over 15 years

    Pak spends american aid money to buy weapons--India spends its hard earned money to buy those weapons--It has right to negotiate hard and get the best deal

  8. #28
    Professionals keysersoze's Avatar
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    Re: Eight F-16s will be sold to Pakistan, Congress told

    Quote Originally Posted by Mohan Tiwari View Post
    1. Pak has indeed been the most reliable ally. Ask 60 million afghani and their govt...The all love Pakistan positive role in cleansing terrorism from afghanistan! By the way; peaceful Taliban proxies have killed 5000 ISAF soldiers. The current Afgani taliban leadership resides in pak.
    Pak had played double game in Afghanistan for 15 yrs. US indeed have such high tolerance for Pakistan!! Any other super power would have bombed Pak to stone age!



    2.India have a capable R&D program,spending 1% of Gdp on R&D. Indian filed 5th max patents, published 5th max research papers.
    India can pretty much develop everything----(minus some top niche tech)
    3. India & US does have converging interests..US have agreed to share some Engine technology and nuclear propulsion-EMALS aircraft propulsion technology which have development plan over 15 years

    Pak spends american aid money to buy weapons--India spends its hard earned money to buy those weapons--It has right to negotiate hard and get the best deal
    Again with the "Going to" Mohan so desperate......

  9. #29
    Senior Member Mohan Tiwari's Avatar
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    Re: Eight F-16s will be sold to Pakistan, Congress told

    Quote Originally Posted by keysersoze View Post
    Again with the "Going to" Mohan so desperate......
    India makes SLBM, ICBM, Pesa & Aesa radar, SAM, Anti tank missile, awacs, small turbofan engine,AAM, torpedos frigates destroyers aircraft carrier..
    Going to work on nuke powered aircraft carrier and supercruise engine with American help

  10. #30
    Senior Member Neo's Avatar
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    Re: Eight F-16s will be sold to Pakistan, Congress told

    Quote Originally Posted by Mohan Tiwari View Post
    India makes SLBM, ICBM, Pesa & Aesa radar, SAM, Anti tank missile, awacs, small turbofan engine,AAM, torpedos frigates destroyers aircraft carrier..
    Going to work on nuke powered aircraft carrier and supercruise engine with American help
    Yet India is world number one arms importer.
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  11. #31
    Senior Member Mohan Tiwari's Avatar
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    Re: Eight F-16s will be sold to Pakistan, Congress told

    Quote Originally Posted by Neo View Post
    Yet India is world number one arms importer.
    Saudi is rank 1 for 2 years.
    India is ranked three importer with spending over 5.5bill $.
    This is approximately 12.5% of Indian defence budget.
    Imports shall come down after rafale is delivered post 2021.
    Indian navy uses 70% local weapons. IAF is big concern.
    But they want rafale type of birds which ll need a decade to make indigenously

    I can bet that pak have much higher% of import with respect to their budget.

  12. #32
    Senior Member Hope's Avatar
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    Re: Eight F-16s will be sold to Pakistan, Congress told

    Quote Originally Posted by keysersoze View Post
    Again with the "Going to" Mohan so desperate......
    He cannot accept reality and to counter the butt hurt, he regurgitates " India will be going to do this and do that ". Full of insecure crap.

  13. #33
    Senior Member Neo's Avatar
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    Re: Eight F-16s will be sold to Pakistan, Congress told

    Pakistan is not even in top ten depiste being involved in a major offensive against TTP terrorists and having two hostile neighbors.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/n...importers.html
    Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocre minds. - Albert Einstein

  14. #34
    Senior Member Mohan Tiwari's Avatar
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    Re: Eight F-16s will be sold to Pakistan, Congress told

    Quote Originally Posted by Neo View Post
    Pakistan is not even in top ten depiste being involved in a major offensive against TTP terrorists and having two hostile neighbors.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/n...importers.html
    Assault rifle is sufficient to kill terrorist.

    According to SIPRI ; Pakistan spends 1.5bill $ yearly as compared to 5.5bill$ spent by india in 2015
    Indian military budget is 44bill$ as compared to 7-8bill $ for pak.

  15. #35
    Professionals keysersoze's Avatar
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    Re: Eight F-16s will be sold to Pakistan, Congress told

    Quote Originally Posted by Mohan Tiwari View Post
    India makes SLBM, ICBM, Pesa & Aesa radar, SAM, Anti tank missile, awacs, small turbofan engine,AAM, torpedos frigates destroyers aircraft carrier..
    Going to work on nuke powered aircraft carrier and supercruise engine with American help
    With lots and lots of help. And again with the "going to" Mohan it's getting sad. A lot of fanboys like you were saying how good the Arjun was going to be. How the LCA would have been in service and how the Rafale was going to be in service already and how India was going to leave Pakistan behind. Well Make in India is a boon to Pakistan as India will be hard pushed to bully Pakistan for the next decade at the very least.

  16. #36
    Senior Member Mohan Tiwari's Avatar
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    Re: Eight F-16s will be sold to Pakistan, Congress told

    Quote Originally Posted by keysersoze View Post
    With lots and lots of help. And again with the "going to" Mohan it's getting sad. A lot of fanboys like you were saying how good the Arjun was going to be. How the LCA would have been in service and how the Rafale was going to be in service already and how India was going to leave Pakistan behind. Well Make in India is a boon to Pakistan as India will be hard pushed to bully Pakistan for the next decade at the very least.
    India have 1000R&D labs. Most of the weapon I mentioned have very high indigenous components
    India is among 6 countries who can make titanium alloy.
    Hoe many countries can build local nuke reactor, thermal plants, wind/steam turbine.

    Pak is way behind country like indonesia in defence industry. You guys cant make a simple railway locomotive, diesel petrol engine for bikes and cars.
    Pak is struggling to make simple laser finder. Radar avionics are out of reach. Shaheen and those cruise missile have everything chinese excluding those fuselage.
    Arjun tank mass production is impossible given the engine is imported and T90 is ultra cheap to mass produce.
    But arjun tank helped india build the ecosystem.
    The 1500Hp MTBT engine Is nearing completion.
    The next gen of MTBT tank will be feasible for mass production.
    Tejas helps india develop base for aeronautical industry.
    Rafale is high end costly import . Nothing to feel pride about.

    Pak used 22% of military budget on imports of weapons as compared to 12.5% of india.

    india pak military budget gap widen yearly.
    India have high tax to gdp ratio. Pak ll find it hard to sustain its military the time Us stops paying those 1 billion$ doles yearly.

  17. #37
    Senior Member Sinbad's Avatar
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    Re: Eight F-16s will be sold to Pakistan, Congress told

    [MENTION=5]Superkaif[/MENTION] look at the title at look at the sh1t Mohan is posting. His obsession is truly obsessive and is not on topic. Its all about butt hurt. Please delete.

    On topic its a good decisions by the Americans.

  18. #38
    Professionals keysersoze's Avatar
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    Re: Eight F-16s will be sold to Pakistan, Congress told

    Quote Originally Posted by Mohan Tiwari View Post
    India have 1000R&D labs. Most of the weapon I mentioned have very high indigenous components
    India is among 6 countries who can make titanium alloy.
    Hoe many countries can build local nuke reactor, thermal plants, wind/steam turbine.

    Pak is way behind country like indonesia in defence industry. You guys cant make a simple railway locomotive, diesel petrol engine for bikes and cars.
    Pak is struggling to make simple laser finder. Radar avionics are out of reach. Shaheen and those cruise missile have everything chinese excluding those fuselage.
    Arjun tank mass production is impossible given the engine is imported and T90 is ultra cheap to mass produce.
    But arjun tank helped india build the ecosystem.
    The 1500Hp MTBT engine Is nearing completion.
    The next gen of MTBT tank will be feasible for mass production.
    Tejas helps india develop base for aeronautical industry.
    Rafale is high end costly import . Nothing to feel pride about.

    Pak used 22% of military budget on imports of weapons as compared to 12.5% of india.

    india pak military budget gap widen yearly.
    India have high tax to gdp ratio. Pak ll find it hard to sustain its military the time Us stops paying those 1 billion$ doles yearly.
    Yet the place that doesn't try to reinvent the wheel exports aircraft to other nations. You are getting desperate now.

    Arjun was too big too heavy and frankly a failure. they tried with Arjun 2 with the "Ecosystem" and failed again with an even bigger heavier tank thats no good. It's also created a new supply chain headache for the Indian forces. Nothing to feel pride about it failed to do what it was supposed to

    Tejas was supposed to replace the Mig21 and again has failed in what it was supposed to do. It's now 2016 and still no operational squadrons or even FOC. also another complicated supply chain for the IAF (like the MKI jet) That's with the "ecosystem" that was in place since the MARUT.

    Dhruv was a failure because it was designed by a western company and with a lot of western help. The moment India got hold of it it starts to crash a lot from mechanical errors.

    Insas rifle failed when troops who used it got killed because it failed.


    At the end of the day the Chinese value what Pakistan brings to the partnership. Your military budget goes to patching up the various screw ups. like the aircraft carrier that took years to come.All the delayed projects. systems that need replacing rifles submarines aircraft. spare parts for aircaft. delayed upgrade programs.

    Pakistan started to plan for a non US plan back in the 90's. They rebuilt quicker with the US funds and have been able to test equipment in combat conditions. And despite all your snide remarks Pakistan is still there...

  19. #39
    Senior Member Mohan Tiwari's Avatar
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    Re: Eight F-16s will be sold to Pakistan, Congress told

    Quote Originally Posted by keysersoze View Post
    Yet the place that doesn't try to reinvent the wheel exports aircraft to other nations. You are getting desperate now.

    Arjun was too big too heavy and frankly a failure. they tried with Arjun 2 with the "Ecosystem" and failed again with an even bigger heavier tank thats no good. It's also created a new supply chain headache for the Indian forces. Nothing to feel pride about it failed to do what it was supposed to

    Tejas was supposed to replace the Mig21 and again has failed in what it was supposed to do. It's now 2016 and still no operational squadrons or even FOC. also another complicated supply chain for the IAF (like the MKI jet) That's with the "ecosystem" that was in place since the MARUT.

    Dhruv was a failure because it was designed by a western company and with a lot of western help. The moment India got hold of it it starts to crash a lot from mechanical errors.

    Insas rifle failed when troops who used it got killed because it failed.


    At the end of the day the Chinese value what Pakistan brings to the partnership. Your military budget goes to patching up the various screw ups. like the aircraft carrier that took years to come.All the delayed projects. systems that need replacing rifles submarines aircraft. spare parts for aircraft. delayed upgrade programs.

    Pakistan started to plan for a non US plan back in the 90's. They rebuilt quicker with the US funds and have been able to test equipment in combat conditions. And despite all your snide remarks Pakistan is still there...
    1. Half baked facts..Arjun tank was supposed to be heavier but it is the cost that makes it non feasible.
    India keeps plugging in technology into the program. its preface to Indian main MTBT .

    In developing Arjun & modified Arjun II ; India have indigenized 40-50% of components -- The tank engine form 25% of the total price---- 1500 MTBT engine production in the last leg of R&D.The engine is nearing completion which finally sets up the ecosystem!

    Indian MTBT will have most of local components including barrel,turret,fire control system and Engine!


    2. Dhruv was made in house. The project involved some western consultant Name me 1 chinese project which didn't hire Russian/western consultant. India have 200 dhruv flying and 100 more on orders. Every heli program have crashes--The newer versions have got rid of those tail rotor problems-- Not a single crash in last 1 year in India. The first version had very high foreign input with engine alone costing 20% of aircraft--(Dhruv cost 5 mill$)--The new versions are 60+% indigenous!

    Watch chinese media compare light combat helicopter to chinese z10.


    The summary of discussion=>
    LCH armed helicopter is a multipurpose light helicopter gunships by Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL) development and production of light helicopters, capable of performing combat missions in the use of modern weapons complex climate and weather conditions, the aircraft is equipped with rocket pods, guns and air to air missiles, capable of shooting down aircraft drones and slow movement, escorted transport helicopters in special operations troops, the destruction of enemy air defense, flying in an urban environment and blow up tanks and other vehicles, LCH is very close to Europe Tiger helicopter gunships and China's Z-10 helicopter gunships.
    India "Dhruv" (Polaris) Advanced Light Helicopter (ALH) Large bloated shape much criticism, and this is different, this new "light combat helicopter," the line is very smooth. Exists between India and the newly developed LCH "Polaris" many similarities, such as the same takeoff weight (both 5.5 tons) and similar power systems. Of course, the difference between the two is very obvious. LCH double cabin using a tandem arrangement, "Polaris" is using the side by side layout; In addition, the former body armor and higher level and use the popular stealth technology. In terms of security, the lower part of the landing gear and airframe of LCH have been enhanced design, can ensure the safety of the pilot in the helicopter with a speed of 10 m / sec vertical fall.
    Rear seat as co-pilot LCH double cabin, whose main task is to air missiles, 20 mm caliber guns, unguided rockets and cluster bombs, grenade launchers and anti-radiation missiles manipulation. LCH will be equipped with missile warning systems, anti-missile system and has a night attack capability cockpit displays. Aircraft Weapons India LCH armed helicopters will be equipped with rocket pods, guns and air to air missiles.
    LCH would be able to shoot down aircraft drones and slow movement, escort helicopter transported in special operations troops and destroy enemy air defense, flying in an urban environment and blow up tanks and other vehicles.
    On the whole flight - technical performance, developed by India LCH is very close to Europe's "Tiger" and Z-10 helicopter gunships China. However, compared with the latter two, as LCH is a developed specifically for combat helicopters at high altitude area, so its performance in this area to be stronger. It is reported that, LCH may be at an altitude of 3000 meters in the airport, at 5000 m height using airborne weapons systems, and in no more than 6500 m of height remote unmanned aircraft to perform tasks.
    3. Indian aircraft carrier is nearing Commissioned before 2018. It was laid down in 2009--So 8-9 years is not much delay!!It always take some more time because it was 1st attempt.

    Chinese working on their aircraft carrier for longer time. I understand that they have less access to technology.

    India was supposed to buy Russian titanium alloys which was sabotaged to delay our program. By that time india had developed in-house titanium alloys. At least we did it..you can only dream about it.
    The AB/A grade steel which was supposed to be supplied from Russia faced problems in delivery. To resolve this, the Defence Metallurgical Research Laboratory (DMRL) and Steel Authority of India Limited (SAIL) created facilities to manufacture the steel in India.[4][8] Reportedly, three special steels for the hull, flight deck and floor compartments were manufactured at the Bhilai Steel Plant and Rourkela Steel Plant. Due to this, this is the first ship on the Indian navy to be built completely using domestically-produced steel.[14] The main switch board, steering gear and water tight hatches have been manufactured by Larsen and Toubro in Mumbai and Talegaon; high-capacity air conditioning and refrigeration systems have been manufactured in Kirloskar Group’s plants in Pune; most pumps have been supplied by Best and Crompton; Bharat Heavy Electricals (BHEL) supplied the Integrated Platform Management System (IPMS), which is being installed by Avio, an Italian company; the gear box was supplied by Elecon; and the electrical cables are being supplied by Nicco Industries.[1

    4. India had hopeless incapable govt for 10yrs..with new govt everything is moving at fine pace. Second nuke submarine will be fitted with reactor this year . Third one is being constructed in shipyard

    India navy adds 2 frigates, 1-2 corvette yearly including 20 small ships for coastguard--

    5. Tejas is supposed to replace Mig21-- and its undergoing final FOC trial with active testing for radome+radar flight testing, BVRAAM test and integration with HDMS(Helmet display mounted system)---

    As per schedule, it is supposed to receive FOC this year! HAL only got the orders for 120 Tejas few months ago--it has started new facility to up production rate from 4 to 16 over 12-18months

    http://www.ibnlive.com/news/india/ha...s-1198050.html
    HAL rolls out HTT-40 aircraft prototype to train IAF rookie pilots

    6. INSAS have got 4-5 versions upgrade--The current version is one of the most reliable assault gun--
    Excalibur gun beat the Beretta ARX 160 from Italy, CZ-805 BREN from Czech Republic, ACE 1 of Israel Weapon Industries, SIG Sauer SG 551 from Switzerland in Winter Leh trials, Desert 50 degree Thar trials!

    7.
    Pakistan is lucky to cash American aid for cheap imports from China.-In short term, You may be lucky with your weapon import--But once American depart from afghanistan: You will have to pay for your bills---During war: all those imports will be frozen and you wont sustain to fight for 2 weeks----

    India is building its own stuffs--There are some hiccups but its approaching in positive direction-- Indian navy is role model for IAF and Indian army--
    http://tribune.com.pk/story/1046498/...t-gwadar-port/

    Moreover, owing to the hostility between India and Pakistan, Pakistan Navy has plans on maintaining a 1:5 power balance with its arch rival. According to the officials, India plans on acquiring 50 warships, three aircraft carriers and 22 submarines, of which five will be nuclear submarines, in the next 10 to 15 years.
    For India, Rafale & Pak-FA are the last import of aircraft--Pakistan with limited industrial capability and almost nill R&D have no other option!!

    India doesnt need to engage Pak in any war--All it needs to push your country in the infinite arms race---Post american withdrawal from 2018, Pak will have to pay for its bills! What use are these F-16 against Indian integrated radar network, integrated space cell, SAM/Akash, Barak-8 Army,Airforce LRSAM capable to bring them down while Su30 MKI can pretty much fly in Pakistan outside range of Pakistani low altitude SAM!

    Indian space research org will launch 7 SLV in 2016 which will go up to 9 in 2017 once second rocket assembly is inaugurated and 12 from 2018 onwards---With third launch center in operational---India will have launched 52 SLV by 2020 year end! 1 Slv have an average 2 satellites-- Indian Intergated space+radar network would have mapped every inch of Pakistan space, arabian sea with its ongoing military space program

    Quote Originally Posted by Mohan Tiwari View Post
    ISRO Launch vehicle frequency

    PSLV(1500 kg to GTO, 3200 Kg to LEO) GSLV( GLSV2: 2500 Kg,GSLV3:4000 Kg to GTO, 4000kg/8000 kg to LEO)

    2016: -------5 ----------------------------------------------1( GSLV MK2)--1 (GSLV MK3)

    2017:--------6 -----------------------------------------------2---------------1

    2018- 2020:-6(yearly)---------------------------------------------3---------------3

    India's GPS will be capable of operating in volume of 1500+- KM east/west/south/north of India to height of 30,000 KM!




    The 2 layer BMD program is matured----Some cities will be protected from them-- 200- KM LRSAM will be tested soon which is variant of AAD missile---Indian space organisation MOTR AESA radars & DRDO swordfish radar can track 30 MM object up to 1000+ KM range!

    Pakistan can relax for 5years but It will find it hard to keep up face with
    1. Indian BMD program
    2. Indian Military space/spy satellites which will be able to track real time
    3. India's own S-300/S-400 variant stemming out of AAD/PAD missiles!
    4. Indian 800-1000 KM long range Ship based AESA radars
    5. Indian cheap home made 3d/4d- Fire control AESA radars(land, sea versions)

    All of these system cost 2-4 times more if you lack technology to make them!
    Last edited by Mohan Tiwari; 14th February 2016 at 19:51.

  20. #40
    Senior Member Neo's Avatar
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    Re: Eight F-16s will be sold to Pakistan, Congress told

    What is the use of posting video's which none of us can understand.
    One can make any claim since we don't speak Mandarin.
    Please either post videos with subtitles or refrain from posting.
    [MENTION=5]Superkaif[/MENTION].
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