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Thread: Tejas Vs JF 17 at airshows.

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  1. #21
    Senior Member Neo's Avatar
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    Re: Tejas Vs JF 17 at airshows.

    Quote Originally Posted by vsdoc View Post
    Will you come back to fight in the next war?

    I'm right here. Waiting.
    There will be no war. Nobody understands it better than Indian armed forces.
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  2. #22
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    Re: Tejas Vs JF 17 at airshows.

    Quote Originally Posted by Neo View Post
    There will be no war. Nobody understands it better than Indian armed forces.
    Don't skirt the question please.

    A reasonable one.

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    Re: Tejas Vs JF 17 at airshows.

    Quote Originally Posted by Neo View Post
    There will be no war. Nobody understands it better than Indian armed forces.
    Don't skirt the question please.

    A reasonable one.

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    Re: Tejas Vs JF 17 at airshows.

    A reasonable answer is provided. There will be no full fleged war between India and Pakistan. Not even a conflict at Kargil scale.
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    Re: Tejas Vs JF 17 at airshows.

    Quote Originally Posted by vsdoc View Post
    Will you come back to fight in the next war?

    I'm right here. Waiting.


    Tejas can do better than Pakistani/chinese plane in terms of Turn rate, Loop rate, Vertical lift off (in meters).Tejas can loop in 350 meter--Can anyone post video of JF17 doing them in 350 meters?

    JF17 cant dare attempt standard negative g turn, low level pass vertical climb-

    Wannna be experts are trying to hyphenate Jf17(3rd Gen aluminium frame) with F-16 Block 42---
    Anyone who sees the display in paris and bahrain can notice which plane is more agile.
    Tejas MK1 trainer have everything better than JF17 block II minus electronic warfare which is not available in Tejas--Block I jf17 had no BVR caps--Block II can barely fire SD-10 with range of 50 Km--
    Chinese radar nd avionic in JF17 is way inferior to Tejas--
    JF17 doesnt have fully digital FBW--It has no trainers--No naval versions---It took 79+ planes for them to add IFR probe which is FOC criteria for Tejas MK1 trainer--

    Look at the TWR ratio, engine + FADEC, JF17 is poor fighter with poor engine...
    For IAF, Tejas MK1 trainer is heavier but same Tejas is lighter and more powerful than JF17 block II..
    Pakistani on this forum dont realize that IAF criteria for Inducting a plane is way way higher than PAF--For IAF, T-50 PAK-FA is big no no as it doesnt meet many of IAF eligibilities spec --Pak would any day induct current prototype T-50

    The only advantage JF17 has over tejas is maturity with many AAM missiles integrated---Its a matured but inferior product---Pakistan is not even able to intergrate Ra'ad with JF17---South africans engineers from Denel helped them build Ra'ad and integate them with Mirage but Jf17 was not probably part of initial agreement during time,SA developed Ra'ad from MUPSOW
    [MENTION=9609]vsdoc[/MENTION]
    India builds tejas with 61+ % components by $ which comprises of 35% local components+ 26% local services+MCU+ IP(western electronics made from Indian design after discounting the price of manufacturing)

    4-5 major components of Tejas will get indigenous contribution from Indian companies

    1. Engine Actuators licensed by Indian space research org
    2. Astra missile will replace Derby
    3. OBOGS-On board gas support
    4. IFR probe,radome will be made by Tata advanced materials
    5. EL-M/2052 Eltra AESA radar will be made with Indian T/R module provided by Astra microwave
    (Co-developer of All Indian AESA radars including DRDO AWACS)
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    Last edited by Mohan Tiwari; 31st January 2016 at 06:47.

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    Senior Member Hariz's Avatar
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    Re: Tejas Vs JF 17 at airshows.

    Quote Originally Posted by safriz View Post
    you sir...made me laugh
    There was nothing there ,it was about the video in first comment.
    thanks for that. didn't realise that Indians had finally got that supposed home made teja up in the air. How many squadrons do they have up?
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    Re: Tejas Vs JF 17 at airshows.

    Quote Originally Posted by vsdoc View Post
    Don't skirt the question please.

    A reasonable one.
    Look, back in the past India had 5 times bigger everything. It had newer and better weapons. Yet they could not erase Pakistan in a war. We had cold war period where after Mumbai "attack" the Indians wanted to punish Pakistan. They sender Mig29/Mirage2000H as CAP and MKI as bombers. They returned without doing anything. And if PAF had F16 (yes those block15 with nada BVR or any other useful thing) the Indians never passed the border. Surely they talk about radar lock but would it be different for PAF F16's? Anyway... We moved long from that. We have now block52 (yes with 500 BVR and DRFM). We have JF17 operational with BVR and internal DRFM (how would I know that...). Both nations are very well equipped and nuclear armed. They both have cruise missiles. AWACS.... Good SAM systems. I think you are using your Bollywood mood to think if you wanna keep up the idea that you will win a war. It is ill destruction or no big war. But somehow people write an empty post and call it valuable. I call it empty post. But that is the punishment of internet where everyone hides behind the unknown ID. So my Indian friend. Just tell me how you came to your conclusion? Bollywood?
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    Re: Tejas Vs JF 17 at airshows.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mohan Tiwari View Post
    Tejas can do better than Pakistani/chinese plane in terms of Turn rate, Loop rate, Vertical lift off (in meters).Tejas can loop in 350 meter--Can anyone post video of JF17 doing them in 350 meters?

    JF17 cant dare attempt standard negative g turn, low level pass vertical climb-

    Wannna be experts are trying to hyphenate Jf17(3rd Gen aluminium frame) with F-16 Block 42---
    Anyone who sees the display in paris and bahrain can notice which plane is more agile.
    Tejas MK1 trainer have everything better than JF17 block II minus electronic warfare which is not available in Tejas--Block I jf17 had no BVR caps--Block II can barely fire SD-10 with range of 50 Km--
    Chinese radar nd avionic in JF17 is way inferior to Tejas--
    JF17 doesnt have fully digital FBW--It has no trainers--No naval versions---It took 79+ planes for them to add IFR probe which is FOC criteria for Tejas MK1 trainer--

    Look at the TWR ratio, engine + FADEC, JF17 is poor fighter with poor engine...
    For IAF, Tejas MK1 trainer is heavier but same Tejas is lighter and more powerful than JF17 block II..
    Pakistani on this forum dont realize that IAF criteria for Inducting a plane is way way higher than PAF--For IAF, T-50 PAK-FA is big no no as it doesnt meet many of IAF eligibilities spec --Pak would any day induct current prototype T-50

    The only advantage JF17 has over tejas is maturity with many AAM missiles integrated---Its a matured but inferior product---Pakistan is not even able to intergrate Ra'ad with JF17---South africans engineers from Denel helped them build Ra'ad and integate them with Mirage but Jf17 was not probably part of initial agreement during time,SA developed Ra'ad from MUPSOW
    [MENTION=9609]vsdoc[/MENTION]
    India builds tejas with 61+ % components by $ which comprises of 35% local components+ 26% local services+MCU+ IP(western electronics made from Indian design after discounting the price of manufacturing)

    4-5 major components of Tejas will get indigenous contribution from Indian companies

    1. Engine Actuators licensed by Indian space research org
    2. Astra missile will replace Derby
    3. OBOGS-On board gas support
    4. IFR probe,radome will be made by Tata advanced materials
    5. EL-M/2052 Eltra AESA radar will be made with Indian T/R module provided by Astra microwave
    (Co-developer of All Indian AESA radars including DRDO AWACS)
    This is based on what? Your paper vision? Yaar at least be honest.
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  9. #29
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    Re: Tejas Vs JF 17 at airshows.

    Quote Originally Posted by Munir View Post
    This is based on what? Your paper vision? Yaar at least be honest.
    There is big diff b/w two countries. .Pak needs chinese help in every missile, cruise missile made in pak..
    Pak lacks ability to sustain long war while india can drag it longer with its matured industries.

    Mr expert plz reply with point by point rebuttal if you find those Info as malicious.
    No expert will compare JF17 to tejas in terms of manoureability and agility.

    In addition jf17 has no contributions from pak. All it gets to do is build 55% of air frames.Rest everything is assembled from CKD kits. I doubt it those aerospace alloys of fuselage are processed from ores in Pakistan.
    Last edited by Mohan Tiwari; 31st January 2016 at 19:13.

  10. #30
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    Re: Tejas Vs JF 17 at airshows.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mohan Tiwari View Post
    There is big diff b/w two countries. .Pak needs chinese help in every missile, cruise missile made in pak..
    Pak lacks ability to sustain long war while india can drag it longer with its matured industries.

    Mr expert plz reply with point by point rebuttal if you find those Info as malicious.
    No expert will compare JF17 to tejas in terms of manoureability and agility.

    In addition jf17 has no contributions from pak. All it gets to do is build 55% of air frames.Rest everything is assembled from CKD kits. I doubt it those aerospace alloys of fuselage are processed from ores in Pakistan.
    And Brahmos is 100% Indian? (only part of software is in reality Indian)...
    And LCA is 100% India? (Israel, US, Europe etc)...

    I do not mind that you think that Bollywood is the reality but at least keep it quiet. Look my friend. I like Indians. But I do not like people who pretend to be educated and informed. And one thing that is even worser... Your blind hatred against Pakistan. It is in every word you write. Why are you busy with negative feelings? We probably share our love for planes. But I still can enjoy every plane. I still can accept critical remarks about JF17. I can understand positive remarks about LCA. But I refuse to accept opinions that have no relation to reality. You do know we are probably more related to each other then any other nation? Just try to look at reality and not the basicly Keymags/BRF empty headed shouting...

    It is a shame that forums are not used to enjoy mutual hobbies...
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    Last edited by Munir; 31st January 2016 at 19:40.

  11. #31
    Senior Member Mohan Tiwari's Avatar
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    Re: Tejas Vs JF 17 at airshows.

    Quote Originally Posted by Munir View Post
    And Brahmos is 100% Indian? (only part of software is in reality Indian)...
    And LCA is 100% India? (Israel, US, Europe etc)...

    I do not mind that you think that Bollywood is the reality but at least keep it quiet. Look my friend. I like Indians. But I do not like people who pretend to be educated and informed.
    Brahmos name (brahamputra + moscow)itself speak for origin..Most importantly it has liquid fuel ramjet engine, agar active homing radar which are russian.
    Tejas program is result of 3:decades long R&d.
    Every component of it will be indigenized in long run.
    Radar and engine are only two critical component.

    While we discuss 80kn wet turbofan engine is under limited service production. .Next in line ll be 90+kn while 1110 kn wet thrust engine in prototype phase.
    Uttam aesa radar with air to air caps tested last year.
    Final AESA radar ll be matured by 2022

  12. #32
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    Re: Tejas Vs JF 17 at airshows.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mohan Tiwari View Post
    Brahmos name (brahamputra + moscow)itself speak for origin..Most importantly it has liquid fuel ramjet engine, agar active homing radar which are russian.
    Tejas program is result of 3:decades long R&d.
    Every component of it will be indigenized in long run.
    Radar and engine are only two critical component.

    While we discuss 80kn wet turbofan engine is under limited service production. .Next in line ll be 90+kn while 1110 kn wet thrust engine in prototype phase.
    Uttam aesa radar with air to air caps tested last year.
    Final AESA radar ll be matured by 2022
    There is hardly anything Indian in those projects. Every hardware of Brahmos is Russian. They just used the Brahmos name to cover TOT issues (inter nation law not to export). So India rewrote certain software. And Russian did not even used that software in their version. When India wanted to export they Russians stopped it. LCA is hardly Indian. Your engine called Kaveri is a failure. If nations like Chine struggle to produce one (and are capable to produce J10, J20, J31 etc) then how can you expect Indians to do it with far less industrial development? You bought Israeli radar and even if you get "tot" then it is still a production item not Indian invention.

    You are so positive about these two Indian items yet you find JF17 Chinese. Let us skip the discussion. I see it as waste of time.
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  13. #33
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    Re: Tejas Vs JF 17 at airshows.

    Quote Originally Posted by Munir View Post
    There is hardly anything Indian in those projects. Every hardware of Brahmos is Russian. They just used the Brahmos name to cover TOT issues (inter nation law not to export). So India rewrote certain software. And Russian did not even used that software in their version. When India wanted to export they Russians stopped it. LCA is hardly Indian. Your engine called Kaveri is a failure. If nations like Chine struggle to produce one (and are capable to produce J10, J20, J31 etc) then how can you expect Indians to do it with far less industrial development? You bought Israeli radar and even if you get "tot" then it is still a production item not Indian invention.

    You are so positive about these two Indian items yet you find JF17 Chinese. Let us skip the discussion. I see it as waste of time.
    They can make bicycles
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    Re: Tejas Vs JF 17 at airshows.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hariz View Post
    thanks for that. didn't realise that Indians had finally got that supposed home made teja up in the air. How many squadrons do they have up?
    None. Sofar only a few LSP units have been delivered, that too with IOC2 only.

    Funny part is that they've moved on with mk2 without finishing or inducting the Mk1 first.
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    Re: Tejas Vs JF 17 at airshows.

    Quote Originally Posted by Munir View Post
    We have now block52 (yes with 500 BVR and DRFM). We have JF17 operational with BVR and internal DRFM (how would I know that...)
    Mate, be careful with sensitive and unpublished info. Some newly adapted toys are being tested for block 3 and the suppliers have to be protected against Indian anti-Pak lobby. There's a reason I am keeping silence about many things.
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    Re: Tejas Vs JF 17 at airshows.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mohan Tiwari View Post
    Tejas can do better than Pakistani/chinese plane in terms of Turn rate, Loop rate, Vertical lift off (in meters).Tejas can loop in 350 meter--Can anyone post video of JF17 doing them in 350 meters?

    JF17 cant dare attempt standard negative g turn, low level pass vertical climb-

    Wannna be experts are trying to hyphenate Jf17(3rd Gen aluminium frame) with F-16 Block 42---
    Anyone who sees the display in paris and bahrain can notice which plane is more agile.
    Tejas MK1 trainer have everything better than JF17 block II minus electronic warfare which is not available in Tejas--Block I jf17 had no BVR caps--Block II can barely fire SD-10 with range of 50 Km--
    Chinese radar nd avionic in JF17 is way inferior to Tejas--
    JF17 doesnt have fully digital FBW--It has no trainers--No naval versions---It took 79+ planes for them to add IFR probe which is FOC criteria for Tejas MK1 trainer--

    Look at the TWR ratio, engine + FADEC, JF17 is poor fighter with poor engine...
    For IAF, Tejas MK1 trainer is heavier but same Tejas is lighter and more powerful than JF17 block II..
    Pakistani on this forum dont realize that IAF criteria for Inducting a plane is way way higher than PAF--For IAF, T-50 PAK-FA is big no no as it doesnt meet many of IAF eligibilities spec --Pak would any day induct current prototype T-50

    The only advantage JF17 has over tejas is maturity with many AAM missiles integrated---Its a matured but inferior product---Pakistan is not even able to intergrate Ra'ad with JF17---South africans engineers from Denel helped them build Ra'ad and integate them with Mirage but Jf17 was not probably part of initial agreement during time,SA developed Ra'ad from MUPSOW
    [MENTION=9609]vsdoc[/MENTION]
    India builds tejas with 61+ % components by $ which comprises of 35% local components+ 26% local services+MCU+ IP(western electronics made from Indian design after discounting the price of manufacturing)

    4-5 major components of Tejas will get indigenous contribution from Indian companies

    1. Engine Actuators licensed by Indian space research org
    2. Astra missile will replace Derby
    3. OBOGS-On board gas support
    4. IFR probe,radome will be made by Tata advanced materials
    5. EL-M/2052 Eltra AESA radar will be made with Indian T/R module provided by Astra microwave
    (Co-developer of All Indian AESA radars including DRDO AWACS)
    You should join the LCA PR (Public Rubbish) team praising your dead born baby
    I am not even going to refute the tall claims you made here. I know how painful and embarrassing it must be to work on a project for 33 years without even convincing your own airforce to buy it.

    Btw how come the western media is ignoring the supa dupa gen 4.5 LCA?
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  17. #37
    Senior Member Mohan Tiwari's Avatar
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    Re: Tejas Vs JF 17 at airshows.

    Quote Originally Posted by Munir View Post
    There is hardly anything Indian in those projects. Every hardware of Brahmos is Russian. They just used the Brahmos name to cover TOT issues (inter nation law not to export). So India rewrote certain software. And Russian did not even used that software in their version. When India wanted to export they Russians stopped it. LCA is hardly Indian. Your engine called Kaveri is a failure. If nations like Chine struggle to produce one (and are capable to produce J10, J20, J31 etc) then how can you expect Indians to do it with far less industrial development? You bought Israeli radar and even if you get "tot" then it is still a production item not Indian invention.

    You are so positive about these two Indian items yet you find JF17 Chinese. Let us skip the discussion. I see it as waste of time.
    I reckon that Brahmos has more indian components than Pakistan uses in ra'ad or babur.
    There is no TOT in brahmos . Russian liquid ramjet engine, fuel and electronics are imported.
    The CM have range of 300km which is in range of MTCR
    Chinese have more matured aerospace industry but kaveri engine did manage to produce 79 kn thrust.20 of which r under production. india ll hav its matured/stable indigenous tejas engine of 90kn thrust with in a decade.
    Israeli sell products. it's rare to get tot from them. They ll license produce aesa radar EL-M/2052 in india with HAL--The radar might source very high % of local Indian components but indian drdo's aesa radar is totally different product with involvement of consortium from pvt sectors that doesn't involve HAL.
    French/Thales do offer consultation to DRDO in radar development but those help are very limited--
    Those assistance is only useful for countries who have reached the threshold to produce miniaturized radar.India have been using local fab built gallium arsenide chips over a decade.
    Indian awacs radar are more than 90% built indigenous.
    Drdo have tie up with Malaysian fab for military fabrication for indian designed chip of sub 30nm resolution while local fab produces CMOS 180 nm chips for space rocket and missiles where space constraint isnt priority. [MENTION=9609]vsdoc[/MENTION]
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    Last edited by Mohan Tiwari; 1st February 2016 at 07:24.

  18. #38
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    Re: Tejas Vs JF 17 at airshows.

    [MENTION=9609]vsdoc[/MENTION] To the fan boys

    Minimum Take-off Distance: JF-17 - 609m. Tejas - 450m.

  19. #39
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    Re: Tejas Vs JF 17 at airshows.

    Quote Originally Posted by Neo View Post
    You should join the LCA PR (Public Rubbish) team praising your dead born baby
    I am not even going to refute the tall claims you made here. I know how painful and embarrassing it must be to work on a project for 33 years without even convincing your own airforce to buy it.

    Btw how come the western media is ignoring the supa dupa gen 4.5 LCA?
    but tall claims are good. It keeps the humour side going. Don't forget its always tomorrow and never today with Mohan Bhai.
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    Re: Tejas Vs JF 17 at airshows.

    Quote Originally Posted by vsdoc View Post
    Like some countries are apparently showing interest in buying the Pakistani assembled Chinese plane, which are the countries which would probably be interested in the Indian fighter?

    Would there be any that are considering both in a head to head?
    Well they would begin head to head comparison once
    we start production of 16 tejas yearly after rectification of those 43 anomalies.
    Lets hope that HAL is able to start production of aesa equipped tejas from 2018

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