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Thread: Post-Modi Gujarat turns communal again

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  1. #21
    Forum Administrator bilalhaider's Avatar
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    Re: Post-Modi Gujarat turns communal again

    Ok guys, please stick to the topic. No need to take shots at each other.
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  2. #22
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    Re: Post-Modi Gujarat turns communal again

    Quote Originally Posted by Ahsan Bin Tufail View Post
    Don't worry about Pakistan, it's in stable hands. Do worry about India, it's not going to be the same.
    yes,India is not going to be same but better than ever...
    recent political unrest definitely cleared my doubt,how stable it is.In pakistan people never know when democracy can end

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    Senior Member kashifraza's Avatar
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    Re: Post-Modi Gujarat turns communal again

    Quote Originally Posted by Goku View Post
    the reality of muslims in gujarat




    First of all, these videos came out in the aftermath of the Gujarat riots, and anyone who spoke against Modi was shut down and criticised. Why would anyone want to speak against Modi publicly when you see Indians on the internet, on the media justifying Hindu extremist violence against Muslims, and shutting down dissent against Modi post 2002?

    Now that Modi is PM, the Hindu extremists have gotten even more emboldened.

    Just the fact that Modi had to come out and make a statement about the "loyalty of Indian Muslims" shows the condition of Muslims. And the fact that he has never condemned communal violence initiated by Hindu extremist elements.

    I think he just wishes that the communal violence stops and he doesn't have to deal with it, but real leaders accept the problems, and address them. He sees communal violence as a "distraction from his agendas", and his government would rather not deal with it. While it is a real issue in India.

    [MENTION=3527]Agnostic_Indian[/MENTION] [MENTION=50]Neo[/MENTION]
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    Senior Member kashifraza's Avatar
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    Re: Post-Modi Gujarat turns communal again

    Quote Originally Posted by Agnostic_Indian View Post
    just like good taliban and bad taliban, there is good communalism and bad communalism.☺
    What is good communalism and bad communalism?

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    Member Ahsan Bin Tufail's Avatar
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    Re: Post-Modi Gujarat turns communal again

    Quote Originally Posted by bilalhaider View Post
    Ok guys, please stick to the topic. No need to take shots at each other.
    Don't worry Sir, I won't.

  6. #26
    Elite Member Agnostic_Indian's Avatar
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    Re: Post-Modi Gujarat turns communal again

    Quote Originally Posted by kashifraza View Post
    What is good communalism and bad communalism?
    right wing majoritarian communalism is bad communalism, it is being opposed by media as well as other political parties including minority identity based parties as well as the other, suppose to be secular parties, but they don't feel anything wrong in indulging themselves in minority communalism.. so according to them minority communalism is good communalism or their version of secularism.
    *Be able to defend your arguments in a rational way. Otherwise, all you have is an opinion.
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  7. #27
    Senior Member kashifraza's Avatar
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    Re: Post-Modi Gujarat turns communal again

    Quote Originally Posted by Agnostic_Indian View Post
    right wing majoritarian communalism is bad communalism, it is being opposed by media as well as other political parties including minority identity based parties as well as the other, suppose to be secular parties, but they don't feel anything wrong in indulging themselves in minority communalism.. so according to them minority communalism is good communalism or their version of secularism.
    There is no such thing as "minority communalism" or "majority communalism". Communalism is communalism.

    It is sad that India has made this serious issue as something for their vote banks.

  8. #28
    Elite Member Agnostic_Indian's Avatar
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    Re: Post-Modi Gujarat turns communal again

    Quote Originally Posted by kashifraza View Post
    First of all, these videos came out in the aftermath of the Gujarat riots, and anyone who spoke against Modi was shut down and criticised. Why would anyone want to speak against Modi publicly when you see Indians on the internet, on the media justifying Hindu extremist violence against Muslims, and shutting down dissent against Modi post 2002?

    Now that Modi is PM, the Hindu extremists have gotten even more emboldened.

    Just the fact that Modi had to come out and make a statement about the "loyalty of Indian Muslims" shows the condition of Muslims. And the fact that he has never condemned communal violence initiated by Hindu extremist elements.

    I think he just wishes that the communal violence stops and he doesn't have to deal with it, but real leaders accept the problems, and address them. He sees communal violence as a "distraction from his agendas", and his government would rather not deal with it. While it is a real issue in India.

    [MENTION=3527]Agnostic_Indian[/MENTION] [MENTION=50]Neo[/MENTION]
    I agree with just one objection of your's, that he did not condemned the rioters and he expressed no regret.
    I did not see the videos but just assuming that it's about minority leaders supporting modi, in that case your defence is very weak, you just have to graciously accept that it's their opinion.
    Modi ruled gujarath after 2002 also and there was zero communal violence, so that is proof of his ability to address the problem. recently after becoming the PM what he asked was for a moratorium on communal violence so that he can fully concentrate on economic development rather than law and order issues arising from the violence.
    Now the problem with the pakistanis is that you simply hate modi, so no matter what you will only criticise him..It's a issue of groundless perception I can't help it.
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    Re: Post-Modi Gujarat turns communal again

    Quote Originally Posted by Agnostic_Indian View Post
    I agree with just one objection of your's, that he did not condemned the rioters and he expressed no regret.
    I did not see the videos but just assuming that it's about minority leaders supporting modi, in that case your defence is very weak, you just have to graciously accept that it's their opinion.
    Modi ruled gujarath after 2002 also and there was zero communal violence, so that is proof of his ability to address the problem. recently after becoming the PM what he asked was for a moratorium on communal violence so that he can fully concentrate on economic development rather than law and order issues arising from the violence.
    Now the problem with the pakistanis is that you simply hate modi, so no matter what you will only criticise him..It's a issue of groundless perception I can't help it.
    You are denying truth using baseless propaganda. Modi has killed innocent humans and he was denied US visa based on these allegations in the past. Now he has become your PM. How can we expect any good from him?
    Last edited by bilalhaider; 9th October 2014 at 21:21. Reason: language

  10. #30
    Senior Member Neo's Avatar
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    Re: Post-Modi Gujarat turns communal again

    Quote Originally Posted by kashifraza View Post
    First of all, these videos came out in the aftermath of the Gujarat riots, and anyone who spoke against Modi was shut down and criticised. Why would anyone want to speak against Modi publicly when you see Indians on the internet, on the media justifying Hindu extremist violence against Muslims, and shutting down dissent against Modi post 2002?

    Now that Modi is PM, the Hindu extremists have gotten even more emboldened.

    Just the fact that Modi had to come out and make a statement about the "loyalty of Indian Muslims" shows the condition of Muslims. And the fact that he has never condemned communal violence initiated by Hindu extremist elements.

    I think he just wishes that the communal violence stops and he doesn't have to deal with it, but real leaders accept the problems, and address them. He sees communal violence as a "distraction from his agendas", and his government would rather not deal with it. While it is a real issue in India.

    [MENTION=3527]Agnostic_Indian[/MENTION] [MENTION=50]Neo[/MENTION]
    First of all Indian press is not free, it remains state controlled and has little freedom compared to our media.

    It's a fact that hindutva mentality is on the rise and hindus want to own up everything that is India. What more proof do you need when the PM himself feels the need to speak about the 'loyalty of Indian muslims'? Who gives him the fcuking right to even mention it! Actually I am glad he did that and put his muslim supporters in shame by showing is real face.

    About the last point that he wants the communal violance to just go away is very much true because at this time he is the PM of India with a very big and powerful anti muslim supporters pool from RSS and a lot of radical parties who put him in the office in the first place. If anything like 2002 Gujarat riots happen again, he won't be able to act differently and will have to appease RSS and likes with his pro hindutva agenda. It will also be the end of his political carrier since all the eyes will be on him in India as well.as abroad.

    Banning muslims to attend hindu festivals in Gujarat was wrong and does not suit a democracy which the Indianslove to brag about. It very much shows that even after the partition the muslims are seen as potential danger and unloyal and should be contained.

    This should be a wake up call for Indian muslims, specially the ones who voted for him.
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    Senior Member Neo's Avatar
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    Re: Post-Modi Gujarat turns communal again

    Quote Originally Posted by Agnostic_Indian View Post
    I agree with just one objection of your's, that he did not condemned the rioters and he expressed no regret.
    I did not see the videos but just assuming that it's about minority leaders supporting modi, in that case your defence is very weak, you just have to graciously accept that it's their opinion.
    Modi ruled gujarath after 2002 also and there was zero communal violence, so that is proof of his ability to address the problem. recently after becoming the PM what he asked was for a moratorium on communal violence so that he can fully concentrate on economic development rather than law and order issues arising from the violence.
    Now the problem with the pakistanis is that you simply hate modi, so no matter what you will only criticise him..It's a issue of groundless perception I can't help it.
    I beg to differ on the bolded part. Though its true that you won't find any love for Modi in Pakistan the problem is not just perception. The guy was a pariah with international community: A persona non grata in the USA and UK and if he was not a presidential candidate the ban would still have been existed.

    Don't forget that the US and the foreign office know him very well. He played a very important role during the Kargil crisis and even dictated most of the laws adapted by the Americans regarding the sutuation. Despite his strong popularity with some powerful lawmakers in Washington he was blacklisted.
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    Elite Member Agnostic_Indian's Avatar
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    Re: Post-Modi Gujarat turns communal again

    Quote Originally Posted by Neo View Post
    I beg to differ on the bolded part. Though its true that you won't find any love for Modi in Pakistan the problem is not just perception. The guy was a pariah with international community: A persona non grata in the USA and UK and if he was not a presidential candidate the ban would still have been existed.

    Don't forget that the US and the foreign office know him very well. He played a very important role during the Kargil crisis and even dictated most of the laws adapted by the Americans regarding the sutuation. Despite his strong popularity with some powerful lawmakers in Washington he was blacklisted.
    I HAVE ONLY ONE WORD TO SAY " PERCEPTION BASED JUDGEMENT SHOULD END WHEN FACT BASED JUDGEMENT COMES", That's what US as a responsible country has done..but you people only want to live with the perception and perception based ban, as if time has freezed after that.
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    Elite Member Agnostic_Indian's Avatar
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    Re: Post-Modi Gujarat turns communal again

    Quote Originally Posted by Ahsan Bin Tufail View Post
    You are denying truth using baseless propaganda. Modi has killed innocent humans and he was denied US visa based on these allegations in the past. Now he has become your PM. How can we expect any good from him?
    heard of judicial system ? Court verdicts ?
    *Be able to defend your arguments in a rational way. Otherwise, all you have is an opinion.
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    Re: Post-Modi Gujarat turns communal again

    Quote Originally Posted by Agnostic_Indian View Post
    I HAVE ONLY ONE WORD TO SAY " PERCEPTION BASED JUDGEMENT SHOULD END WHEN FACT BASED JUDGEMENT COMES", That's what US as a responsible country has done..but you people only want to live with the perception and perception based ban, as if time has freezed after that.

    When did the court clear Modi and when was his ban lifted in the USA?
    Why the gap? Would his ban have been lifted if he wasn't a PM candidate?
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  15. #35
    Elite Member Agnostic_Indian's Avatar
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    Re: Post-Modi Gujarat turns communal again

    Quote Originally Posted by Neo View Post
    When did the court clear Modi and when was his ban lifted in the USA?
    Why the gap?
    first of all court verdict is what determines the guilt or innocence of a person, your question gives the impression that US lifting the ban is what determines the his guilt or innocense, which is not right.gap is because of the sluggishness of the system and political opposition within US and most importanlty modi did not apply for visa soon after the court verdict, and US could not reconsider the ban unless there is a fresh application.

    Would his ban have been lifted if he wasn't a PM candidate?
    once again ban is not the judgement.if US did not lift the ban then their action would have been based on perception and a denial of fact..but they lifted the ban and respected the facts.
    For your question, I could also argue that UPA was in power and they wanted to isolate modi and US Just wanted to pleace the then PM and their own home audience....So you see it can be argued both ways.
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    Senior Member Felix's Avatar
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    Re: Post-Modi Gujarat turns communal again

    Quote Originally Posted by Neo View Post
    I beg to differ on the bolded part. Though its true that you won't find any love for Modi in Pakistan the problem is not just perception. The guy was a pariah with international community: A persona non grata in the USA and UK and if he was not a presidential candidate the ban would still have been existed.

    Don't forget that the US and the foreign office know him very well. He played a very important role during the Kargil crisis and even dictated most of the laws adapted by the Americans regarding the sutuation. Despite his strong popularity with some powerful lawmakers in Washington he was blacklisted.
    Banned and treated like a leper by all major western nations including the USA yet [MENTION=3527]Agnostic_Indian[/MENTION] suggests only Pakistan hates Modi. Problem is Indians desperately want to forget his legacy and involvement in the massacre in 2002. They want to portray him as the great Indian saviour. In reality the assessment of his character hasn't changed. Only in India its changed.
    Last edited by bilalhaider; 10th October 2014 at 14:16. Reason: mind your language

  17. #37
    Elite Member Agnostic_Indian's Avatar
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    Re: Post-Modi Gujarat turns communal again

    Quote Originally Posted by Felix View Post
    Banned and treated like a leper by all major western nations including the USA yet [MENTION=3527]Agnostic_Indian[/MENTION] suggests only Pakistan hates Modi. Problem is Indians desperately want to forget his legacy and involvement in the massacre in 2002. They want to portray him as the great Indian saviour. In reality the assessment of his character hasn't changed. Only in India its changed. .
    Try to follow my previous posts and arguments put forward.You saying " he is involved in 2002 roits " will not make it so, it has zero back up of facts, your's is just a oudated perception based opinion while facts are on my side or to say it more accurately " I am on the side of fact while you are on the side of perception ".
    Rest of the world except pakistan has updated themselves according to the facts.
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    Last edited by bilalhaider; 10th October 2014 at 14:17.
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    Re: Post-Modi Gujarat turns communal again

    [MENTION=6294]kashifraza[/MENTION]

    Brother you're wasting your breath. The majority of Indians who voted for him think the sun shines out of Modi's backside, and you ain't going to persuade them otherwise. They are fixated about Modi - someone somewhere probably has probably erected a murti of him and worship him as some sort of God.

    Like Obama, Modi is a good orator and gave people hope. (In my opinion false hope.) Let the Indians find out the hard way, that policies are not so easily implemented as setting them out on paper. Just wait and let's see how far Modi delivers on his promises.
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  19. #39
    Senior Member Pak92's Avatar
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    Re: Post-Modi Gujarat turns communal again

    All too often we on the sub continent make it about the personality rather than ideas

  20. #40
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    Re: Post-Modi Gujarat turns communal again

    Quote Originally Posted by Express View Post
    The reality of it is most Muslims in Gujarat lived the last 10 years in fear of repercussions because of Modi. He is a vicious animal waiting to pounce.
    Mark my words --- when he fails on hid promises, and I have no doubt he will fail. he will please his brigade by attacks on the minorities to quench and satisfy their urges.
    tell me weather those attackers were hindu or muslim ,please do not make it a hindu-muslim issue .
    There were attacks their in gujarat ,but they are not a communal riots ,but unfortunately it was on eve of Eid,Sorry for that .
    I can also pick some violent act in some country and put here telling that it communal attacks on hinduism on eve of diwali.
    please show atleast some respect for our P.M.

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