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Thread: Army's ammunition won't last 20 days of war

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  1. #21
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    Re: Army's ammunition won't last 20 days of war

    Quote Originally Posted by T-123456 View Post
    You do know this thread was created by an Indian member to show the lack of ammunition in the army?
    We should be able to critize our own countries.
    Absolutely but at the same time dont let others to take cheap shot.

    Now on topic: Indian doctrine warrants 40 days of intense war reserve but we have for 20 days only. In new plan we are targeting 2015 as an immediate refurbishment of critical ammunitions and 2019 to achieve 40 day reserve.

    The question for all cheap shot takers are - Can they survive an army of 1.18 with reserve of 20 days?

    If we have to go to war with pakistan which is half in numbers, wont this reserve serve 35-40 days?

    How much long pak survive? An attrition war of month?

  2. #22
    Senior Member Hariz's Avatar
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    Re: Army's ammunition won't last 20 days of war

    Like I said these articles are inaccurate and it is not clear if the war the article is talking about is with Pakistan China or even a two front war. Little can be safely assumed other than the Indian Army is short of ammo

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    Re: Army's ammunition won't last 20 days of war

    Quote Originally Posted by PoKeMon View Post
    Absolutely but at the same time dont let others to take cheap shot.

    Now on topic: Indian doctrine warrants 40 days of intense war reserve but we have for 20 days only. In new plan we are targeting 2015 as an immediate refurbishment of critical ammunitions and 2019 to achieve 40 day reserve.

    The question for all cheap shot takers are - Can they survive an army of 1.18 with reserve of 20 days?

    If we have to go to war with pakistan which is half in numbers, wont this reserve serve 35-40 days?

    How much long pak survive? An attrition war of month?
    Lets assume there is a war,you both will last long enough for a cease fire,nobody wins.
    Both countries have friends!
    So,lets just focus on peace.
    ```````

  4. #24
    Senior Member Hariz's Avatar
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    Re: Army's ammunition won't last 20 days of war

    This article appears to provide more detail but suggest 7 days ammo so its difficult to say whats what with any accuracy:




    India not war ready, Army Chief tells Modi
    Army chief General Bikram Singh did not hold back on the “critical hollowness” afflicting the Army after a decade of missed deadlines for procurement.
    VISHAL THAPAR New Delhi | 14th Jun 2014

    Prime Minister Narendra Modi stepped into the War Room of the Military Operations Directorate of the Army Headquarters for the first time on Friday to review the security challenges on India's troubled frontiers. He hadn't reckoned with the inconvenient truth that India is not ready for war. Army chief General Bikram Singh did not hold back on the "critical hollowness" afflicting the Army after a decade of missed deadlines for procurement and wherewithal to face war. He made it clear that the basic weapon available to the infantry soldier — the INSAS Rifle — was obsolete. Firepower, critical in any war, is a worry because there's been no new addition of artillery guns since the scam-tainted Bofors deal of 1986. Army air defence is outdated as well. Army aviation, which is the lifeline for soldiers deployed on forbidding border posts up to 23,000 feet high, is saddled with the over 40-year-old Cheetah-Chetak helicopters. Night blindness is a critical factor not adequately addressed.

    The efforts to deal with military obsolescence over the last decade appear clumsy and incompetent. No headway has been made in the over $5 billion artillery modernisation programme, despite multiple tenders and repeated trials. It's the same story with the $1 billion acquisition of 197 light helicopters for the Army. India's big air defence programme — the $5 billion Very Short Range Air Defence Systems (VSHORAD) is stuck in red tape. So is the Short-Range Surface-to-Air Missile (SRSAM) development programme. The $1.5 billion procurement of the basic assault rifle and carbine for the infantry hasn't made any significant progress. The anti-tank Javelin missile too appears a mirage, as also the Future Infantry Combat Vehicle (FICV).

    The most startling of the challenges flagged by General Bikram Singh to be addressed on a priority basis was the depletion in the war wastage reserves for ammunition, which has fallen well below 50%. "Current levels will not last even a week of intense war," sources acknowledged. General Bikram Singh wants a Rs 19,250 cr funding to replenish ammunition stocks. "The roadmap entails making up 50% of the war wastage reserves of ammunition by the end of 2015 and 100% by 2019," sources disclosed.

    "Of all the services, the progress in the modernisation programme of the Army has been the worst. The only significant assets we've added over the last decade are the T-90 tanks, the Smerch long-range artillery, Pinaka rocket systems and the Brahmos missiles. Very serious gaps are showing in our capability. These must be addressed by the new government on avery urgent basis. That's our urgent appeal to the political leadership," said a senior officer.

    Sources said the War Room briefing for Modi lasted 2 hours and 45 minutes. The Army is hoping that its severe readiness deficit registered on the Prime Minister.

    http://www.sunday-guardian.com/news/...ief-tells-modi
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  5. #25
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    Re: Army's ammunition won't last 20 days of war

    Quote Originally Posted by PoKeMon View Post
    Yours daddy?

    Israel must be your step brother - considering pakistan to be illegitimate child of US which they are trying to get rid of lately.

    And what an irony [MENTION=4322]T-123456[/MENTION] - we dont have ammunition still we tear apart pakistan, hold their land and hold the land of their new found daddy china.
    Ohh come on Poky, pay sone respect to your savior. Without Israels help in 1965, 1999 and beyond you'd have suffered huge losses. Israel reshaped Indian military and privided most of current hi-tech you have today.
    Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocre minds. - Albert Einstein

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    Senior Member Neo's Avatar
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    Re: Army's ammunition won't last 20 days of war

    Quote Originally Posted by T-123456 View Post
    You do know this thread was created by an Indian member to show the lack of ammunition in the army?
    We should be able to critize our own countries.
    Indian rule: any indian criticising India or her institutions is either a commie or an idiot on ISI paylist. Their is no such concept of 'liberal' Indian.
    Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocre minds. - Albert Einstein

  7. #27
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    Re: Army's ammunition won't last 20 days of war

    Quote Originally Posted by PoKeMon View Post
    Absolutely but at the same time dont let others to take cheap shot.

    Now on topic: Indian doctrine warrants 40 days of intense war reserve but we have for 20 days only. In new plan we are targeting 2015 as an immediate refurbishment of critical ammunitions and 2019 to achieve 40 day reserve.

    The question for all cheap shot takers are - Can they survive an army of 1.18 with reserve of 20 days?

    If we have to go to war with pakistan which is half in numbers, wont this reserve serve 35-40 days?

    How much long pak survive? An attrition war of month?
    The answer is nukes. One of the main reasons for us to pursue nuclear ambution is to ensure that there will be no full scale war with India, no matter how strong she becomes in conventional warfare.
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    Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocre minds. - Albert Einstein

  8. #28
    Senior Member Fassi's Avatar
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    Re: Army's ammunition won't last 20 days of war

    Quote Originally Posted by PoKeMon View Post
    Absolutely but at the same time dont let others to take cheap shot.

    Now on topic: Indian doctrine warrants 40 days of intense war reserve but we have for 20 days only. In new plan we are targeting 2015 as an immediate refurbishment of critical ammunitions and 2019 to achieve 40 day reserve.

    The question for all cheap shot takers are - Can they survive an army of 1.18 with reserve of 20 days?

    If we have to go to war with pakistan which is half in numbers, wont this reserve serve 35-40 days?

    How much long pak survive? An attrition war of month?
    Depends how you view an opinion. Pakistan or Pakistanis have to look at themselves. They are in no position to take cheap shots at anyone . But its a respected Indian member that's started the thread and others are voicing their opinion.
    The situation of using ammo till you run out is a scenario that will never thankfully come to fruition so lets calm down.

  9. #29
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    Re: Army's ammunition won't last 20 days of war

    Quote Originally Posted by Neo View Post
    Ohh come on Poky, pay sone respect to your savior. Without Israels help in 1965, 1999 and beyond you'd have suffered huge losses. Israel reshaped Indian military and privided most of current hi-tech you have today.
    Help? Did they give us something free?

    Or is it that its just India who buys ammunition and pak has 100% indigenous industry?
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    Re: Army's ammunition won't last 20 days of war

    Quote Originally Posted by Fassi View Post
    Depends how you view an opinion. Pakistan or Pakistanis have to look at themselves. They are in no position to take cheap shots at anyone . But its a respected Indian member that's started the thread and others are voicing their opinion.
    The situation of using ammo till you run out is a scenario that will never thankfully come to fruition so lets calm down.
    The context of my post was Neo's calling Israel some daddy of India. That was unwarranted and a cheap shot not the article.

  11. #31
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    Re: Army's ammunition won't last 20 days of war

    Quote Originally Posted by Neo View Post
    The answer is nukes. One of the main reasons for us to pursue nuclear ambution is to ensure that there will be no full scale war with India, no matter how strong she becomes in conventional warfare.
    Pakistanis are no insane. They fear to die as well. Nukes are just a hollow threat.
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  12. #32
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    Re: Army's ammunition won't last 20 days of war

    Quote Originally Posted by PoKeMon View Post
    Help? Did they give us something free?

    Or is it that its just India who buys ammunition and pak has 100% indigenous industry?
    In 1965 India had no diplomatic relations with Israel, it was a huge favor.
    Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocre minds. - Albert Einstein

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    Senior Member manuu's Avatar
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    Re: Army's ammunition won't last 20 days of war

    Quote Originally Posted by PoKeMon View Post
    Pakistanis are no insane. They fear to die as well. Nukes are just a hollow threat.
    A hollow threat that will hopefully continue to bring peace in the region bro

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    Re: Army's ammunition won't last 20 days of war

    Quote Originally Posted by Neo View Post
    In 1965 India had no diplomatic relations with Israel, it was a huge favor.
    Your point being?

    Israel always look for diplomatic support from where ever possible. They saw a potential buyer and future ally, they sold us goods. Whats your argument?

  15. #35
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    Re: Army's ammunition won't last 20 days of war

    Quote Originally Posted by manuu View Post
    A hollow threat that will hopefully continue to bring peace in the region bro
    Ironically, this threat is providing nuclear umbrella to wrong people to spread terror.

  16. #36
    Senior Member manuu's Avatar
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    Re: Army's ammunition won't last 20 days of war

    Quote Originally Posted by PoKeMon View Post
    Ironically, this threat is providing nuclear umbrella to wrong people to spread terror.
    Be sensible. Pakistan having nukes has stopped India from attacking Pakistan and visa versa. Terror has and can be spread by BOTH parties. Don't portray India as being a bystander with clean hands. They are certainly not.
    Back to the crux of the thread. Indian speculative journalism are suggesting that India ought to bolster their defences in particular their procurement. Now lets not veer off topic.

  17. #37
    Senior Member Amjad Hussain's Avatar
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    Re: Army's ammunition won't last 20 days of war

    Quote Originally Posted by Fassi View Post
    Its an article in the Times of India put up by a respected India. India has a shortage of ammunition. Stop trying to be a liar bro. You are embarrassing yourself and of course the nations flags you show. I hope India resolve this issue.
    Still a poor source....as you can tell

  18. #38
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    Re: Army's ammunition won't last 20 days of war

    Quote Originally Posted by Fassi View Post
    Its an article in the Times of India put up by a respected India. India has a shortage of ammunition. Stop trying to be a liar bro. You are embarrassing yourself and of course the nations flags you show. I hope India resolve this issue.
    Yes India has shortage of ammunition as per Indian standards or doctrine which look for enough firepower to completely outplay pakistan and at the same time hold China long enough.

    The shortage of ammunition should not be taken for granted by any individual as that is enough to obliterate armies of most of the hostile countries in conventional war.
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  19. #39
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    Re: Army's ammunition won't last 20 days of war

    India may be short of ammunition, but Pakistan isn't a sea of paradise.
    BTW news like this is normally released when the army want a hike in their budgets. Standard practice.
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  20. #40
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    Re: Army's ammunition won't last 20 days of war

    Quote Originally Posted by Express View Post
    India may be short of ammunition, but Pakistan isn't a sea of paradise.
    BTW news like this is normally released when the army want a hike in their budgets. Standard practice.
    Express, the ammunition shortage is attributed to mismanagement more than the budget constraint since it doesn't need much of armies fortune. Lately focus has been on big ticket buys for navy and airforces, army getting neglected. Its quite contrary to pakistan forces where army call the most shots.

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