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Thread: Israeli Palestininian conflict

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  1. #41
    Think Tank 1Badmaash's Avatar
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    Re: 3 Israeli teenagers kidnapped, Israel takes action

    Quote Originally Posted by Solomon2 View Post
    No reports of civilian casualties.
    They'll be there. The Israelis are baying for blood. Netanyahu and the IDF will oblige. And a little "collateral damage" won't be taken amiss. The Israelis interpret Hammurabi's ancient injunction as "A thousand teeth for a tooth, a thousand eyes for an eye."

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    Re: 3 Israeli teenagers kidnapped, Israel takes action

    Quote Originally Posted by Solomon2 View Post
    We're talking about kidnapping teenagers and you prefer to skip to something else?
    I am? I'm commenting on the disproportionate Israeli response, while the tail (USA) calls for restraint. By the way, there's one thing about which I see eye-to-eye with the Israelis: their utter contempt for the pathetic and worthless Obama.

    Why don't you advocate to your fellow citizens that they stop funding violence?
    They do? First I heard of it.

  3. #43
    Senior Member Solomon2's Avatar
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    Re: 3 Israeli teenagers kidnapped, Israel takes action

    Quote Originally Posted by 1Badmaash View Post
    They'll be there. The Israelis are baying for blood. Netanyahu and the IDF will oblige.
    Silly.

    The Israelis interpret Hammurabi's ancient injunction as "A thousand teeth for a tooth, a thousand eyes for an eye."
    False. Gross, too.
    “Real peace cannot ever happen while the world allows itself to be taken hostage by lies.” — Elder of Ziyon

  4. #44
    Senior Member Solomon2's Avatar
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    Re: 3 Israeli teenagers kidnapped, Israel takes action

    Quote Originally Posted by 1Badmaash View Post
    I am? I'm commenting on the disproportionate Israeli response -
    Didn't sound like that's what you were doing to me. I don't even know what you mean be "disproportionate", or what you're characterizing as a "response".
    “Real peace cannot ever happen while the world allows itself to be taken hostage by lies.” — Elder of Ziyon

  5. #45
    Senior Member Solomon2's Avatar
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    Re: 3 Israeli teenagers kidnapped, Israel takes action

    Quote Originally Posted by Express View Post
    What is your problem? I paid my respect to kids that have lost their lives to a horrific act. Why do you still want to argue on this point?
    "Lost their lives" is what you meant by "lost"? Hmm.

    Do you ever come out in the same manner when atrocities are committed by Zionists on innocent?
    The problem for you as a Pakistani and Muslim is that such things are very very rare - and when they do happen, it's a concern of the Jews themselves that justice be done.

    Do you come to the table with clean vibrant hands? I can post dozens links showing how innocent have been slain -
    See the importance of the lying propaganda? What if you knew to your own satisfaction that the Zionists were, indeed, coming to the table with "clean vibrant hands" - or at least hands far far cleaner than their opponents, and far cleaner than yours - since you've stained them by spreading lies with your keyboard?

    I'm saying that a new, more humble, approach by Pakistanis to Israel is necessary - for the sake of Pakistan. You've become a people that bends to cruelty and corruption. Complain about leaders all you like, but if you were in their place why would things be any different, seeing that you share the same values and thus can be expected to justify the same corrupt decisions? Acknowledging publicly that Israel has the right ideas and ideals while Pakistan got most things wrong is the big step forward.
    Last edited by Solomon2; 1st July 2014 at 20:08.
    “Real peace cannot ever happen while the world allows itself to be taken hostage by lies.” — Elder of Ziyon

  6. #46
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    Re: 3 Israeli teenagers kidnapped, Israel takes action

    Forget a measured response. The Israelis are going to react with "shock and awe." To understand the modern Israeli mentality, keep in mind these are not the timid Jews who cowered in some European ghetto, waiting tremulously for the next pogrom. I recommend watching the Tarantino film, "Inglourious Basterds," to understand the contemporary Israeli mentality, particularly the end part.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inglourious_Basterds


  7. #47
    Senior Member Solomon2's Avatar
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    Re: 3 Israeli teenagers kidnapped, Israel takes action

    Quote Originally Posted by 1Badmaash View Post
    Forget a measured response. The Israelis are going to react with "shock and awe." ...I recommend watching the Tarantino film, "Inglourious Basterds," to understand the contemporary Israeli mentality -
    It may be a fun film for some, but I.G. is a fictional alternate history treasured by anti-Zionists because it turns Jews into Nazis.

    Apparently your only grasp of "contemporary Israeli mentality" is caricature - and you know it!
    “Real peace cannot ever happen while the world allows itself to be taken hostage by lies.” — Elder of Ziyon

  8. #48
    Elite Member T-123456's Avatar
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    Re: 3 Israeli teenagers kidnapped, Israel takes action

    Quote Originally Posted by Solomon2 View Post
    Why do you insist on pretending? They were not "lost" but kidnapped and deliberately slain: link
    Do you want enemies everywhere,look at your reaction to someone paying respect to the dead children?
    I havent seen you paying respect to any dead people,be it by floods in Bangladesh,Pakistan,Afghanistan,India,or terrorist attacks(Karachi Airport),building collapse(India),the innocent killed in Syria(Muslims and Christians)etc.
    I'm starting to think you only care about Israel and the rest can go fvck themselfs.
    Well the world dont work that way,if you want respect you should start with showing some,if you want compassion show us some.
    Dont act like a kid who wants all the candy/toys for himself.
    Not gonna work,try a different approach or forget it.
    Thank god not all Israeli's are like you,all of my Jewish friends would say to you;grow up!
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  9. #49
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    Re: 3 Israeli teenagers kidnapped, Israel takes action

    Quote Originally Posted by Solomon2 View Post
    It may be a fun film for some, but I.G. is a fictional alternate history treasured by anti-Zionists because it turns Jews into Nazis.
    One of the ironies of history: the formerly oppressed have become like their former oppressors. The brazen and shameless part is that they use what was done to them as justification for the same things that they now perpetrate.

  10. #50
    Senior Member Solomon2's Avatar
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    Re: 3 Israeli teenagers kidnapped, Israel takes action

    Quote Originally Posted by 1Badmaash View Post
    One of the ironies of history: the formerly oppressed have become like their former oppressors -
    It remains a fantasy. There are no mass shootings by Israelis of civilians, no death camps, no ovens, etc. It's what you want to believe is true to suit your agenda, that's all. That you advocate it without regard to facts marks you as a man with zero credibility.
    “Real peace cannot ever happen while the world allows itself to be taken hostage by lies.” — Elder of Ziyon

  11. #51
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    Re: 3 Israeli teenagers kidnapped, Israel takes action

    Quote Originally Posted by Solomon2 View Post
    It remains a fantasy. There are no mass shootings by Israelis of civilians, no death camps, no ovens, etc.
    That's one of the few differences. The racist ideology is pretty much the same; the Palestinian Arabs live in what can best be described as a vast concentration camp; and shootings of civilians by the IDF are common enough. I don't what you're complaining about when I make such comparisons -- what faux outrage and indignation you display.

  12. #52
    Senior Member Solomon2's Avatar
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    Re: 3 Israeli teenagers kidnapped, Israel takes action

    Quote Originally Posted by T-123456 View Post
    Do you want enemies everywhere,look at your reaction to someone paying respect to the dead children?
    Was that what he was doing?

    I havent seen you paying respect to any dead people,be it by floods in Bangladesh,Pakistan,Afghanistan,India,or terrorist attacks(Karachi Airport),building collapse(India),the innocent killed in Syria(Muslims and Christians)etc.
    I didn't address all these subjects you mention, yet it appears you didn't look very hard: I've been a very big advocate of flood relief in Pakistan, for example

    I'm starting to think you only care about Israel and the rest can go fvck themselfs.
    You'd be wrong. However, I've noticed very few Turks can boast of providing charitable funds - or even thoughts - to Israel's Jews. Seems it's human nature for such people to respond that others are just as bad as they are.

    ...if you want respect you should start with showing some,if you want compassion show us some.
    Dont act like a kid who wants all the candy/toys for himself.
    Early in my commenting on Pakistani forums I did just as you said, offering prayers for those slain in terror attacks. The response was uniformly an angry one.

    Not gonna work,try a different approach or forget it.
    It's an appeal for honesty and maturity.

    Thank god not all Israeli's are like you,all of my Jewish friends would say to you;grow up!
    Yes, many Jews and Zionists are willing to let Muslims stew in their own juice. Why waste one's time? But I say Muslims - be they in Turkey, Europe, Pakistan, etc. - deserve to be exposed to an alternate viewpoint based on universal values and thinking that's based on facts in context, rather than propaganda buttressing tribal notions of right and wrong. Muslims should know why they've been losers for so long. (Ataturk knew, of course : link.)
    Last edited by Solomon2; 1st July 2014 at 20:47.
    “Real peace cannot ever happen while the world allows itself to be taken hostage by lies.” — Elder of Ziyon

  13. #53
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    Re: 3 Israeli teenagers kidnapped, Israel takes action

    Quote Originally Posted by Solomon2 View Post
    But I say Muslims - be they in Turkey, Europe, Pakistan, etc. - deserve to be exposed to an alternate viewpoint based on universal values
    Ah yes, that "universal values" spiel.

    and thinking that's based on facts in context,
    Whose context, though?

    Muslims should know why they've been losers for so long.
    That's right: have the victims blame themselves.

  14. #54
    Senior Member ManojKumar's Avatar
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    Re: 3 Israeli teenagers kidnapped, Israel takes action

    The expected over reaction by Israel?

    Israel launches Gaza air strike after bodies of missing teens found

    JERUSALEM: Israel bombed dozens of sites in the Gaza Strip on Tuesday, striking at Hamas after finding the bodies of three missing teenagers whose abduction and killing it blames on the Palestinian Islamist group.

    Israel's security cabinet, which held an emergency session late on Monday and was due to meet again on Tuesday, was split on the scope of any further action in the coastal enclave or in the occupied West Bank, officials said. The United States and regional power-broker Egypt urged restraint.

    Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu had promised Hamas would pay after the discovery of the three Jewish seminary students' bodies under rocks near the West Bank city of Hebron on Monday.

    The military said aircraft attacked 34 sites, mostly belonging to Hamas, though its statement did not link the strikes to the abductions. Palestinian medics said two people were slightly wounded.

    The military cited 18 Palestinian rockets launched against Israel from Gaza in the past two days.

    The Islamist group has neither confirmed nor denied involvement in the disappearance of the students as they hitchhiked near a Jewish settlement on June 12 nor in the cross-border rocket salvoes from Gaza.

    The funerals of Gil-Ad Shaer and US-Israeli national Naftali Fraenkel, both 16, and Eyal Yifrah, 19 were due to take place later on Tuesday in the Israeli city of Modi'in, where they were to be buried side-by-side.

    At the security cabinet meeting, the army proposed "considered and moderate actions" against militants in the West Bank, officials said. Any sustained campaign there could undermine US-backed Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas.

    But the cabinet did not agree on a future course of action at that session, officials added. In Gaza, Hamas spokesman Sami Abu Zuhri warned Israel against going too far.

    "The response of the resistance has been limited, and Netanyahu must not test Hamas's patience," said Abu Zuhri, whose group's arsenal includes rockets that can reach Tel Aviv.

    Status quo

    Netanyahu seized on the abduction to demand Abbas annul a reconciliation deal he reached with Hamas, his long-time rival, in April that led to a unity Palestinian government on June 2.

    An Arab diplomat familiar with Egyptian mediation between Israel and the Palestinians said that Cairo, echoing Washington, expected the Netanyahu government to tread carefully.

    "I don't believe Israel is ready, just yet, to change the status quo," he told Reuters on condition of anonymity. "It can punish those who did the crime, but should not get out of control with civilians who had nothing to do with the crime."

    In the West Bank on Tuesday, an Israeli military spokeswoman said troops opened fire at a man, identified by Palestinian officials as Yousouf Al-Zagha, 19, who threw a grenade at soldiers attempting to arrest a militant in Jenin refugee camp. A Palestinian witness said Zagha was an innocent passerby.

    The men Israel has accused of carrying out the abductions are still at large. Israeli media said the break in the case came after their relatives were interrogated.

    Troops set off explosions in the family homes of the alleged abductors late on Monday, blowing open a doorway in one, an army spokeswoman said. The other property was on fire after the blast. Soldiers, who arrested one of the suspect's father and brothers, ordered the inhabitants of the dwellings to leave before the detonations.

    "This kind of act is a sin, whether you're a Muslim or Jew. They've scared the kids so much," Um Sharif, the mother of one of the alleged kidnappers, said about the damage to her home.

    Hamas has been rocked by the arrest of dozens of its activists in an Israeli sweep in the West Bank over the past three weeks during the search for the teenagers that Israel said was also aimed at weakening the militant movement.

    Up to six Palestinians died as a result of the Israeli operation, local residents said.

    After news of the teenagers' deaths, condolence messages and condemnation of the killings poured in from foreign leaders.

    "The United States condemns in the strongest possible terms, this senseless act of terror against innocent youths," President Barack Obama said in a statement. "I also urge all parties to refrain from steps that could further destabilize the situation."

    Abbas condemned the abduction and pledged the cooperation of his security forces, drawing criticism from Hamas and undercutting his popularity among Palestinians angered by what they saw as his collusion with Israel.

    Hamas, which has maintained security control of the Gaza strip since the unity deal, is shunned by the West over its refusal to renounce violence. The group has called for Israel's destruction, although various officials have at times indicated a willingness to negotiate a long-term ceasefire.

    http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/w...w/37576141.cms

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    Re: 3 Israeli teenagers kidnapped, Israel takes action

    Quote Originally Posted by ManojKumar View Post
    Up to six Palestinians died as a result of the Israeli operation, local residents said.
    Heck, they don't count. A bunch of smelly Arabs.
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    Senior Member Amjad Hussain's Avatar
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    Re: 3 Israeli teenagers kidnapped, Israel takes action

    Palestinian teenager's body found in Jerusalem

    Israeli police have found the body of a Palestinian teenager who was kidnapped overnight in East Jerusalem.

    Mohammed Abu Khdair, 17, was seen being forced into a car early on Wednesday. Within hours, his partly-burned corpse was discovered in a forest.

    Israeli police were unable to confirm the motive, but Palestinian sources said it appeared to be a revenge attack for the murder of three Israeli teens.

    Later, Palestinians clashed with Israeli police near the boy's home.

    The protesters threw stones at the officers, who reportedly responded by firing sound bombs, tear gas and rubber bullets.

    The mayor of Jerusalem, Nir Barkat, called for restraint.

    'Despicable murder'

    Initial reports said the boy was abducted near his father's shop in the Arab district of Shufat in East Jerusalem. Witnesses said he was bundled into a white car.

    A few hours later, his body, partly burned and bearing marks of violence, was found abandoned in a forest near Givat Shaul, in the western outskirts of the city.

    Israeli Internal Security Minister Yitzhak Aharonovitch said it was too early to draw conclusions as to the motive.

    "We know of a boy who apparently was abducted and we see a link to the discovery of a body. This is still under investigation by the forensic labs and detectives," he told reporters.

    "Everything is being examined. There are many possibilities. There is a criminal possibility as well as a political one," he added. "I am telling everyone, let us wait patiently."
    line
    At the scene: Yolande Knell, BBC News, Jerusalem

    Roads are closed off all around the Shufat neighbourhood of East Jerusalem as crowds of young Palestinians vent their anger. Some have begun destroying the shelters for the Israeli tram system.

    Small groups are using catapults to launch stones at heavily armed Israeli police officers. They are responding with rounds of rubber bullets. An ambulance has whizzed past with sirens blaring suggesting there have been injuries.

    Locals say the dead Palestinian boy was Mohammed Abu Khdair, although Israeli police have not confirmed that. His funeral is expected to take place later on Wednesday; that will be another cause for tension.

    While there has been no confirmation that this was a revenge attack for the three murdered Israelis whose bodies were found in the West Bank earlier this week, there is no doubt among Palestinians here about what has happened.

    Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas said he had demanded that Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu "condemn the kidnapping and murder" of Mohammed Abu Khudair "as we condemned the kidnapping of the three Israelis".

    He also called on the Israeli authorities to "take concrete steps on the ground to stop [revenge] attacks".

    Shortly afterwards, Mr Netanyahu denounced what he called as a "despicable murder".

    "Prime Minister Netanyahu calls all sides not to take the law into their own hands - Israel is a law-abiding state and everyone is obliged to act according to it," his office said in a statement.

    The BBC's Kevin Connolly says it is too early to say for sure, but there is a real possibility that the killing is a tit-for-tat reprisal, with all the dangers that would pose for the broader relationship between Israel and the Palestinians.

    The killing comes a day after funerals were held in the West Bank for the three Jewish seminary students whose bodies were found near the city of Hebron on Monday, two-and-a-half weeks after they were abducted.
    line
    Media reaction to killing of Israeli teenagers

    ISRAELI PRESS

    "How does one prevent the next event?... The answer is hard and painful. Without hot-headedness, without promises and hollow threats, what is left for us is to liquidate Hamas in the Gaza Strip, from the head of its leaders to the last terrorist." Brig-Gen Tzvika Fogel in Yisrael Hayom

    "In a few days, when the dust settles and everyone finishes arguing, we will return to square one, to the core issue: For how many tens of years will it be possible to control another people?" Amnon Abramovitch in Yedioth Aharonot

    PALESTINIAN PRESS

    "The world must know that the Israeli military operation launched in the wake of the three settlers' kidnapping caused great suffering for large sectors of the Palestinian people in the West Bank and Gaza Strip. These people mostly have no political affiliations but are, nevertheless, paying the price of this collective punishment." Editorial in al-Quds

    "The killing of the three settlers was met with the martyrdom of seven Palestinians, some of them as young as the settlers or even younger. So, why does the world denounce the killing of the settlers while no one denounces what the Israeli army has done against Palestinian citizens?" Ashraf al-Ajrami in al-Ayyam
    line

    Mr Netanyahu vowed to strike at Hamas, the Palestinian Islamist group he holds responsible for their deaths. It has denied any involvement.

    On Tuesday night, dozens of Israelis took to the streets of Jerusalem to protest against the murder of the three teenagers. There were reports that at one demonstration some people shouted "death to the Arabs".

    About 40 Palestinians were arrested throughout the West Bank as the Israeli authorities continued to crack down on Hamas. Four were injured early on Wednesday after being shot during a raid in the city of Jenin.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-28124329
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  17. #57
    Senior Member Solomon2's Avatar
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    Re: 3 Israeli teenagers kidnapped, Israel takes action

    Jewish rioters attack Arab youths in Jerusalem clashes: link
    “Real peace cannot ever happen while the world allows itself to be taken hostage by lies.” — Elder of Ziyon

  18. #58
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    Re: 3 Israeli teenagers kidnapped, Israel takes action

    Every time the Israeli government finds itself in a jam, its enemies rush in to save it. Or so we are supposed to believe.

    The pattern is unmistakeable: The US is leaning on Israel to freeze or dismantle settlements…and suddenly a suicide bomb goes off. The international community has Israel up against a wall…another bomb goes off. Argentina’s Jewish community starts turning anti-Zionist…and the Israeli embassy and Jewish Community Center in Buenos Aires get blown up.

    Today, the whole world is recognizing and applauding Palestine’s new coalition government featuring the newly-reconciled PLA and Hamas. Israel is going crazy, screaming about the “evil Hamas terrorists.” Suddenly three Israeli teens are allegedly kidnapped. Israel blames Hamas, and initiates a brutal crackdown in the West Bank.

    But Hamas had nothing to gain, and everything to lose, from pulling off this kind of kidnapping. The only beneficiary is Israel, which wants to delegitimize the Palestinian coalition government. The situation fairly screams “false flag!”

    Now it has emerged that the head of the Israeli Mossad actually “called” the kidnapping a week in advance! Haaretz just reported ...
    http://www.veteranstoday.com/2014/06/16/israeli-teens/

  19. #59
    Senior Member Sinbad's Avatar
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    Re: 3 Israeli teenagers kidnapped, Israel takes action

    Quote Originally Posted by Solomon2 View Post
    Jewish rioters attack Arab youths in Jerusalem clashes: link
    Sad to see these Jews are showing mob mentality.
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  20. #60
    Senior Member Solomon2's Avatar
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    Re: 3 Israeli teenagers kidnapped, Israel takes action

    Quote Originally Posted by Sinbad View Post
    Sad to see these Jews are showing mob mentality.
    Yes. Especially since it didn't have to be this way. There are simply too many people out there who hold that kidnapping and killing innocent Jews for sport is no crime - that the perpetrators of such deeds should be celebrated, not prosecuted, and further deeds should be encouraged. During WWII it was the judgment of the Allies that Germans, as a people, were collectively responsible for such deeds due to this attitude towards first Jews, then (more importantly to the Allies and Soviets) themselves. Hence they spared little pity for the Germans suffering from bombardment, displacement, or near-starvation.

    Jewish law, too, holds societies to a minimum standard of conduct - the seven Noahide Laws. Among the most important of these is that every society should outlaw murder and have a system in place for enforcing such laws. That anti-Israel Arab societies have explicitly rejected such standards for decades is disappointing (to put it mildly) at all times. During times of great grief like this the outrage at such long-suffering injustice can explode into anger, unjustly directed at passers-by. It's a good thing police were active - I understand several assaults on Arabs have been prevented. I think when the grief fades a bit, attempts at violence will as well.
    “Real peace cannot ever happen while the world allows itself to be taken hostage by lies.” — Elder of Ziyon

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