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Thread: Israeli Palestininian conflict

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  1. #21
    Senior Member kashifraza's Avatar
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    Re: Palestinians overwhelmingly reject two-state solution,

    Quote Originally Posted by Mazea View Post
    By more than a 2-1 margin, Palestinians oppose the two-state solution, favoring instead the goal of a Palestinian state "from the river to the sea," according to a recent poll by the centrist Washington Institute for Near East Policy.

    At the same time, though, the poll found that a large majority of Palestinians favored the tactic of "popular resistance" – such as demonstrations and strikes – over violence to achieve their goals, Globes reported Sunday.

    Interestingly, Gazans were more moderate when it came to tactics, but more hardline about the goal.

    The survey also found that West Bank leader Mahmoud Abbas was a much more popular leader than Gazan leader Ismail Haniyeh – both in the West Bank (28.1 percent to 6.9 percent) and in the Gaza Strip (32.4 percent to 11.7 percent).

    The poll, which questioned a relatively large sample of 1,200 respondents, was taken June 15-17 – following the abductions of three Israeli teenagers, the formation of the Fatah-Hamas unity government, and the collapse of the Kerry peace talks. However, it was conducted just before West Bank protests arose against Abbas for his cooperation with Israel's search for the kidnapped boys and crackdown on Hamas.

    Goals vs. tactics

    Asked what political goal they favored over the next five years, 60.3 percent replied "action to return historic Palestine, from the river to the sea, to our hands," while 27.3 percent answered "end[ing] the occupation of the West Bank in order to reach a two-state solution."

    Another 10.1 percent said the goal should be a "one-state solution, for the entire region, from the river to the sea, in which Jews and Arabs enjoy equal rights.”

    If a Palestinian leadership were to reach agreement with Israel on a two-state deal, 64 percent said Palestinians should still continue to press on for a Palestinian state encompassing the territories and Israel, while 31.6 percent said they would accept a two-state solution.

    On the question of tactics, again, the trend was toward moderation, with 70 percent of Gazans and 56 percent of West Bankers saying Hamas should observe a cease-fire with Israel. Asked if Hamas should go along with Abbas' demand that the unity government publicly renounce violence, 57 percent of Gazans agreed, while West Bankers were split evenly.

    Popular resistance won the support of 73 percent Palestinians in Gaza and 62 percent of those in the West Bank.

    http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomac...emium-1.601938
    Unfortunately, I think the two-state solution is the only good option for Palestine, otherwise, the way the Muslim world is going right now, it is looking like it will self-destruct. Israel is strong enough to withstand anything that is thrown at them.

  2. #22
    Senior Member manuu's Avatar
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    Re: 3 Israeli teenagers kidnapped, Israel takes action

    RIP

    The funeral is on tv. You would think this is a state funeral or something. Israelis seem to be trying to make a political statement via a funeral. How many Palestinians have been murdered? How many got the same coverage?
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  3. #23
    Senior Member Solomon2's Avatar
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    Re: 3 Israeli teenagers kidnapped, Israel takes action

    Quote Originally Posted by manuu View Post
    RIP

    The funeral is on tv. You would think this is a state funeral or something. Israelis seem to be trying to make a political statement via a funeral.
    ToI link

    How many Palestinians have been murdered? How many got the same coverage?
    The world - starting with the Arab media - doesn't care to think much about Arabs kidnapping and murdering other Arabs.
    “Real peace cannot ever happen while the world allows itself to be taken hostage by lies.” — Elder of Ziyon

  4. #24
    Senior Member KingKong's Avatar
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    Re: 3 Israeli teenagers kidnapped, Israel takes action

    Quote Originally Posted by manuu View Post
    RIP

    The funeral is on tv. You would think this is a state funeral or something. Israelis seem to be trying to make a political statement via a funeral. How many Palestinians have been murdered? How many got the same coverage?
    Its sad to see 3 young kids having their lives taken. Dreadful and a waste.
    BTW what did you expect with the coverage?

  5. #25
    Senior Member Solomon2's Avatar
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    Re: 3 Israeli teenagers kidnapped, Israel takes action

    Quote Originally Posted by Neo View Post
    They will kill 30 or maybe 300 to avenge the death of.3 youths. Sad development indeed, get ready for retaliation.
    Quote Originally Posted by Amjad Hussain View Post
    RIP. Get ready for a slaughter of the innocent in retaliation.
    Ridiculous.

    One of the hardest things for Pakistanis to accept is that Israel as a nation (and many of its individual citizens) is not only more humane in conduct than Pakistan is or has been, but its moral conduct exceeds that which Pakistan even aspires to at present. (Your diplomats already know this - that's why they came knocking at my door for help years ago - but don't feel it's their job to tell this to their citizens.)

    Amjad, Neo: is it really so dangerous to bring the truth out of the shadows and into public and thus debate with the Israel- and freedom-haters? I really have to wonder at those Pakistanis who whisper that they would tell the truth but they worry about getting their throats slit twenty minutes later - are they telling me the truth or not?
    “Real peace cannot ever happen while the world allows itself to be taken hostage by lies.” — Elder of Ziyon

  6. #26
    Senior Member Solomon2's Avatar
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    Re: 3 Israeli teenagers kidnapped, Israel takes action

    Rabbi Jonathan Sacks:

    ...Judaism is supremely a religion of life. That is the logic of the Torah’s principle that those who have had even the slightest contact with death need purification before they may enter sacred space. The parah adumah, the rite of the red heifer, delivered this message in the most dramatic possible way. It said, in effect, that everything that lives – even a heifer that never bore the yoke, even red, the colour of blood which is the symbol of life – may one day turn to ash, but that ash must be dissolved in the waters of life. God lives in life. God must never be associated with death.

    Eyal, Gilad and Naftali were killed by people who believed in death. Too often in the past Jews were victims of people who practised hate in the name of the God of love, cruelty in the name of the God of compassion, and murder in the name of the God of life. It is shocking to the very depths of humanity that this still continues to this day.

    Never was there a more pointed contrast than, on the one hand, these young men who dedicated their lives to study and to peace, and on the other the revelation that other young men, even from Europe, have become radicalised into violence in the name of God and are now committing murder in His name. That is the difference between a culture of life and one of death, and this has become the battle of our time, not only in Israel but in Syria, in Iraq, in Nigeria and elsewhere. Whole societies are being torn to shreds by people practising violence in the name of God.

    Against this we must never forget the simple truth that those who begin by practising violence against their enemies end by committing it against their fellow believers. The verdict of history is that cultures that worship death, die, while those that sanctify life, live on. That is why Judaism survives while the great empires that sought its destruction were themselves destroyed.

    Our tears go out to the families of Eyal, Gilad and Naftali. We are with them in grief. We will neither forget the young victims nor what they lived for: the right that everyone on earth should enjoy, to live a life of faith without fear -



    In memoriam Eyal, Gilad and Naftali
    “Real peace cannot ever happen while the world allows itself to be taken hostage by lies.” — Elder of Ziyon

  7. #27
    Senior Member Neo's Avatar
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    Re: 3 Israeli teenagers kidnapped, Israel takes action

    Lets wait a couple of days to see how Israel reacts and how many Palestinians die and we'll talk.
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  8. #28
    Senior Member Solomon2's Avatar
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    Re: 3 Israeli teenagers kidnapped, Israel takes action

    Quote Originally Posted by Neo View Post
    Lets wait a couple of days to see how Israel reacts and how many Palestinians die and we'll talk.
    Why should a couple of days make a difference in your judgment? In 1972 Arab terrorists killed Israeli athletes at the Olympics in Munich, Germany. The decision of Israel's leadership was to seek justice by killing the murderers and their accomplices. The process took 20 years: link. Do you think anti-Israel propagandists waited twenty years in judgment before polluting minds with more lies?
    “Real peace cannot ever happen while the world allows itself to be taken hostage by lies.” — Elder of Ziyon

  9. #29
    Senior Member Solomon2's Avatar
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    Re: 3 Israeli teenagers kidnapped, Israel takes action

    One action Israel has taken thus far:

    Under Threat, Pro-Israel Arab Boys Now Looking for Safe Houses

    Concerned Zionists are are working to place Mohammad Zoabi, Yihya Mahmeed, in safe environments.
    By Gil Ronen
    First Publish: 6/30/2014, 7:05 PM

    Concerned Zionists are are working to place two courageous Muslim youths from Israel, Mohammad Zoabi and Yihya Mahmeed, in safe environments – after they expressed opinions sympathetic to the abducted Jewish teens and became targets of hatred in the radical Muslim community.

    Zoabi received much media attention after he posted a video on Facebook expressing his concern for the three teen hostages. Mahmeed uploaded a picture of himself to Facebook, with a large Israeli flag and a sign saying "#Bring Back Our Boys."

    The two boys, both high school students, immediately began receiving death threats. Several of Zoabi's relatives were arrested on suspicion of planning to abduct him to Samaria. Mahmeed was assaulted in the street in his city of Umm al Fahm the other day while he was walking to school for his final exams. As result, he missed his exam.

    “We are a handful of concerned Israelis and friends of Israel,” writes the group in a page dedicated to raising funds for the project.

    “We are currently seeking a safe place for the boys outside of Israel until the situation claims down,” adds the group working to assist the two. “Hopefully, a trusted host will be found. The funds we are trying to raise will be used for air fare and upkeep expenses for the two boys.”

    "If this works you might be saving a boys' lives. These two boys have proven deserving of that protection. They are sticking their own necks out for Israel. We feel that it's our collective responsibility to help them as best as we can. So, we are asking you to chip in.” The donation page can be accessed at this link.

    In his latest video, Zoabi addressed Prime Minister Binyamin Netanyahu and said: “To Bibi and his entire government, I say – wake up and stop cooperating with terrorists. The Palestinian Authority is the biggest terrorist.



    "On the day before yesterday, these three youths were abducted,” he continued, “and tomorrow it could be me, you or any other Israeli – Arab or Jewish. I am an Israeli and will remain an Israeli. Israel will remain a Jewish and democratic country." He concluded with the traditional Jewish salutation, "Am Yisrael chai.”

    The courageous and eloquent Zoabi recently stated in a unique interview that he is a Zionist and loves the state of Israel.

    "I really believe that I'm a lucky Arab and a lucky human being and a lucky Middle Eastern[er] that I was born in this little tiny piece of land!”, he stated. Pointing to the Golan Heights from the window of his interviewer's home, in the Israeli community of Massad, he noted how bad life is beyond the border, for Syrians.
    “Real peace cannot ever happen while the world allows itself to be taken hostage by lies.” — Elder of Ziyon

  10. #30
    Senior Member Hariz's Avatar
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    Re: 3 Israeli teenagers kidnapped, Israel takes action

    RIP to the dead. These wasteful deaths on both sides make for sad reading. Palestinians and Israelis must talk and make peace this status quo is being going on for far too long
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  11. #31
    Senior Member Solomon2's Avatar
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    Re: 3 Israeli teenagers kidnapped, Israel takes action

    Quote Originally Posted by Hariz View Post
    RIP to the dead. These wasteful deaths on both sides make for sad reading. Palestinians and Israelis must talk and make peace this status quo is being going on for far too long
    You've fallen into the fallacy of blaming both sides equally. This is not truthful, it's BBC-speak. (The BBC prefers not to contest facts but instead maintains that when it comes to the Israeli-Arab conflict it acts to fulfill its mandate of "objectivity".)
    “Real peace cannot ever happen while the world allows itself to be taken hostage by lies.” — Elder of Ziyon

  12. #32
    Senior Member Hariz's Avatar
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    Re: 3 Israeli teenagers kidnapped, Israel takes action

    Quote Originally Posted by Solomon2 View Post
    You've fallen into the fallacy of blaming both sides equally. This is not truthful, it's BBC-speak. (The BBC prefers not to contest facts but instead maintains that when it comes to the Israeli-Arab conflict it acts to fulfill its mandate of "objectivity".)
    Listen mate when three innocent people die you should just want the killing to stop. To hell with whose fault it is it needs to be stopped

  13. #33
    Senior Member Solomon2's Avatar
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    Re: 3 Israeli teenagers kidnapped, Israel takes action

    Quote Originally Posted by Hariz View Post
    Listen mate when three innocent people die you should just want the killing to stop. To hell with whose fault it is it needs to be stopped
    An aggressive way of saying that justice should be left to G-d, not the community, so that the wicked can continue to enjoy the fruits of their evil deeds.

    If you truly believe that, why not release all the convicts from your local prison and pray to G-d to keep you safe instead?
    “Real peace cannot ever happen while the world allows itself to be taken hostage by lies.” — Elder of Ziyon

  14. #34
    Think Tank 1Badmaash's Avatar
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    Re: 3 Israeli teenagers kidnapped, Israel takes action

    Quote Originally Posted by Solomon2 View Post
    One of the hardest things for Pakistanis to accept is that Israel as a nation (and many of its individual citizens) is not only more humane in conduct than Pakistan is or has been, but its moral conduct exceeds that which Pakistan even aspires to at present.
    Bollocks. This is what the Israelis are doing right now:

    Click image for larger version. 

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    http://stopwar.org.uk/news/gaza-bomb...d#.U7LyH7Eythf
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  15. #35
    Think Tank 1Badmaash's Avatar
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    Re: 3 Israeli teenagers kidnapped, Israel takes action

    Quote Originally Posted by Hariz View Post
    Listen mate when three innocent people die you should just want the killing to stop. To hell with whose fault it is it needs to be stopped
    Doesn't work that way. Palestinians throw stones, Israelis react with automatic fire. Palestinians then react with gun fire, and the Israelis up the ante to helicopter gunships. And the Israelis' final trump card is always nuclear weapons.

  16. #36
    Senior Member Solomon2's Avatar
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    Re: 3 Israeli teenagers kidnapped, Israel takes action

    Quote Originally Posted by 1Badmaash View Post
    Bollocks. This is what the Israelis are doing right now:

    Click image for larger version. 

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    http://stopwar.org.uk/news/gaza-bomb...d#.U7LyH7Eythf
    No reports of civilian casualties. Perhaps this is part of the "anti-Hamas operations" Netanyahu has been speaking of.

    You don't see that "Stop the War" has ever advocated Arabs to stop killing Jews, urged Hamas to stop rocketing Israeli civilians, or labeled kidnapping and killing Jewish kids by Arabs a crime, do you? That's the paradox: when you pity the wicked, you quickly find you can't pity the innocent.
    “Real peace cannot ever happen while the world allows itself to be taken hostage by lies.” — Elder of Ziyon

  17. #37
    Senior Member Express's Avatar
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    Re: 3 Israeli teenagers kidnapped, Israel takes action

    RIP for the lost kids.

  18. #38
    Senior Member Solomon2's Avatar
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    Re: 3 Israeli teenagers kidnapped, Israel takes action

    Quote Originally Posted by Express View Post
    RIP for the lost kids.
    Why do you insist on pretending? They were not "lost" but kidnapped and deliberately slain: link
    “Real peace cannot ever happen while the world allows itself to be taken hostage by lies.” — Elder of Ziyon

  19. #39
    Senior Member Express's Avatar
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    Re: 3 Israeli teenagers kidnapped, Israel takes action

    Quote Originally Posted by Solomon2 View Post
    Why do you insist on pretending? They were not "lost" but kidnapped and deliberately slain: link
    What is your problem? I paid my respect to kids that have lost their lives to a horrific act. Why do you still want to argue on this point?
    Do you ever come out in the same manner when atrocities are committed by Zionists on innocent? Do you come to the table with clean vibrant hands? I can post dozens links showing how innocent have been slain so lets not turn this thread into a mud slinging affair.

    I will try again.RIP for the lost souls
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  20. #40
    Senior Member Solomon2's Avatar
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    Re: 3 Israeli teenagers kidnapped, Israel takes action

    Quote Originally Posted by 1Badmaash View Post
    Doesn't work that way. Palestinians throw stones, Israelis react with automatic fire. Palestinians then react with gun fire, and the Israelis up the ante to helicopter gunships. And the Israelis' final trump card is always nuclear weapons.
    We're talking about kidnapping teenagers and you prefer to skip to something else? You could help, 1Badmaash. You live in Norway, which currently out-sources its antisemitism to these Palestinian Arabs, subsidizing their violence against Jews. How long would Arabs continue initiating conflict with Jews if they didn't get paid for it? Not long, I guess: Arabs have bigger problems. Why don't you advocate to your fellow citizens that they stop funding violence?
    “Real peace cannot ever happen while the world allows itself to be taken hostage by lies.” — Elder of Ziyon

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