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Thread: J-20 Mighty Dragon stealth fighter

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    J-20 Mighty Dragon stealth fighter

    J-20 Mighty Dragon "2002" is almost ready to lift-off


    Amazingly crisp and high-definition J-20 picture coming out of Chengdu, China.

    [Note: Thank you to Marchpole for the picture.]

    ----------

    J-20 Mighty Dragon "2002" is airborne!







    [Note: Thank you to Marchpole for the pictures.]
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    Last edited by Martin; 29th September 2012 at 05:37.

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    J-20 Mighty Dragon "2002" test flight on September 26, 2012













    [Note: Thank you to Greyboy2 for the pictures.]
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    J-20 Mighty Dragon "2002" first flight



    [Note: Thank you to Frank Lau for the video link.]
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    J-20 Mighty Dragon has three times the combat radius of the F-22 Raptor

    I view the J-20 Mighty Dragon as a large F-22. It has greater range and a similar payload. Two side-bays for short-range air-to-air missiles and a main weapon bay to carry medium-range air-to-air missiles.

    J-20 combat range: 1,243 miles (see Chengdu J-20 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia)

    F-22 combat range: 471 miles (see Lockheed Martin F-22 Raptor - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia)

    ----------

    Physics analysis

    How about a physics argument?

    China's J-20 is indisputably larger than the F-22. Therefore, it can carry a larger volume of fuel. Hence, China's J-20 indisputably has a larger combat radius than the F-22. The conclusion is the same.

    -----

    The F-22 Raptor combat radius of 471 miles was determined from flight test data (see F-22 Raptor Team Web Site: Technology - Flight Test Data).

    The larger Russian T-50/Pak-Fa has been reported to have a combat radius of 1,500 km or 900 miles (see AERO INDIA: Roadmap revealed for Medium Combat Aircraft).

    It is perfectly reasonable to expect the physically larger Chinese J-20 to have a far greater combat radius than the F-22.

    ----------

    The cube root of 3

    In an earlier post, I made the claim that the J-20 Mighty Dragon has a far greater combat radius (e.g. 1,243 miles) than the F-22 (e.g. 471 miles).

    Obviously, it is indisputable the J-20 has significantly longer range than the F-22. Your eyes can easily note the larger physical size of the J-20 in a photographic comparison (with the pictures normalized to match the sizes of the pilots' helmets and airplane wheels).

    Anyway, we're moving onward to a mathematical analysis. For a J-20 to have three times the range of a F-22, it needs to carry three times the fuel. Volume is determined by three dimensions (e.g. length, width, and height).

    To carry three times the fuel of a F-22, the J-20 must have a fuel tank that is three times larger. The cube root of three will indicate how much larger the J-20 fuel tank must be in physical dimensions.

    The cube root of 3 = 1.44

    Thus, if the J-20 fuel tank is 1.44 times longer, 1.44 times wider, and 1.44 times taller than the F-22 then the J-20 has three times the fuel load of the F-22.

    Anyway, I don't have the schematics for the J-20 and F-22. However, it is entirely plausible that the J-20 fuel tank is 1.44 times larger than the F-22 in all three dimensions. Therefore, it is credible the J-20 has three times the combat radius of the F-22. The US Air Force screwed up in building an air superiority fighter with such a short range.

    China can easily bomb (with ballistic, cruise, or MLRS missiles) any potential airfields that may serve as a base of operations for the F-22. Without a base to resupply fuel and ammunition, the F-22 is out of action in the Chinese theater of operation.

    [Note: I am aware the J-20 will weigh a little more than the F-22 and it will have to carry a little more than three times the fuel load. However, this is offset by more lift from the canards and the calculations are meant to be approximate to illustrate a point.]
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    J-20 Mighty Dragon is a more modern and aerodynamic design than F-22 Raptor

    The J-20 and F-22 are both using turbofan engines. The difference in efficiency should not be significant (e.g. it will only be marginal). The higher compression ratio of the F-22 engine will give it a slight edge in efficiency. However, as I have already stated in my "note," the J-20 has canards to provide extra lift that gives it its own fuel-efficiency advantage.

    I have already stated the operational load capacity is approximately the same: two side-bay SRAAM and main-bay MRAAM.

    Regarding drag, the J-20 is a more aerodynamic plane than the F-22. The F-22 has two large gaps between the engine airducts and the fuselage. Air will flow into the gaps and create drag for the F-22. The J-20 is a later and more modern design. There is no drag-inducing gap. Instead, the J-20 airduct has been seamlessly integrated into the fuselage. Therefore, the superior design and less drag favor the J-20.
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    My proposal on shooting down a true fifth-generation stealth fighter (F-22 or J-20)

    Bi-static or multi-static radar is problematic in shooting down a F-22, because the most likely conflict is over Taiwan. Taiwan is an island in the ocean and it's difficult to receive the radar bounce from the underbelly of a transient F-22 flying overhead.

    My proposal is purely theoretical. I don't believe the actual scenario will happen.

    a. Chinese SRBM can neutralize all Taiwanese military bases in about 20 minutes. The war is over.

    b. F-22 has too short a combat radius (e.g. 471 miles) to be deployed in the Asian theater. Japanese airbases can also be vaporized by Chinese SRBM, IRBM, and cruise missiles in 20 minutes. This war is over. There are no Japanese air bases available for F-22 operation.

    I can't think of a plausible scenario where the F-22 can realistically reach the Chinese coast. Air-refueling tankers are giant targets and they'll be shot out of the sky in record time. Drop tanks imply a one-way kamikaze trip. Also, the F-22 will not have enough fuel to loiter and fight in the airspace above the eastern Chinese coast.

    ----------

    Anyway, let's move on to the more interesting discussion of shooting down a F-22 (or J-20).

    1. A F-22 or J-20 is optimized to minimize its reflection of centimeter-resolution X-band AESA radar.

    2. However, a F-22 can be detected with meter-resolution Low-Band radar (see Russian / PLA Low Band Surveillance Radar Systems (Counter Low Observable Technology Radars)).

    The problem with Low-Band radar is that it can only provide a general location (within a few meters or tens of meters) of a fast-moving stealth fighter. How do we narrow down its true position in space?

    Let's use triangulation. While the Low-Band radar from a single unit will provide uncertainty in a bubble of space, we will use multiple Low-Band radar units scattered over the entire eastern Chinese coast. We will aggregate the readings from multiple Low-Band radars over a wide area and that should provide the location of an incoming F-22.


    Using triangulation, we can pinpoint the location of a F-22 with meter-resolution Low-Band radars. Relay the targeting information to a SAM or air-to-air missile and you have a good chance of shooting down a stealth fighter.

    Alternatively, we can conceptually build a dual-seeker missile. The missile could fly towards the center-point of its Low-Band radar reflection. Within 20km of its target, it activates its AESA radar and looks for a F-22. Even if the success rate is only 20%, it would only require five missiles to shoot down a F-22. If you like, you can experiment with a Low-Band radar and tv dual-head seeker.
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  7. #7
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    Tracking a F-22 with a low-band radar through statistical averaging

    The problem with meter-resolution low-band radar is that it provides a general area where an enemy stealth fighter is located. Previously, I discussed the technique of triangulation from multiple low-band radar sites to narrow down the position of the F-22.

    Today, I want to discuss the technique of statistical averaging. Using a single low-band radar, it might be possible to predict the coordinates for the location of a F-22. Though a single low-band radar reflection may be imprecise, the continuous tracking of a F-22 and the plotting of a smooth curve would show the current F-22 location.


    By tracking the radar reflections from a single low-band radar, it may be possible to precisely identify the location of a F-22 through statistical averaging.

    Obviously, the most effective defense is to use a network of low-band radars and combine the techniques of triangulation and statistical averaging to identify the exact location of a F-22. To neutralize an enemy stealth fighter, SAMs or air-to-air missiles can be used.

    If all else fails, vector in a squadron of J-20 Mighty Dragon stealth fighters for an intercept.
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    J-20 Mighty Dragon is critical to building low-band radar defense against F-22

    In theory, we know we can use the physics principle of "resonance" (see citation below) to determine the approximate location of a F-22 stealth fighter. In addition, we know we can use the principles of triangulation and "tracking through statistical averaging over time" to pinpoint the location of a F-22.

    Russian / PLA Low Band Surveillance Radar Systems (Counter Low Observable Technology Radars)

    "The Rezonans-N radar is a mobile highly automated coherent all-round surveillance phased-array radar employing the resonance wave reflection effect in the metric wavelength band. It is designed to monitor airspace, to acquire, identify and measure with high accuracy co-ordinates and flight characteristics of a wide range of existing and prospective air targets at long ranges and high altitudes, including low-observable cruise and ballistic missiles and hypersonic aircraft, as well as stealthy ones, in severe jamming and clutter environment, as well as to be used within automated/non-automated command and control systems, non-strategic missile defence systems, rapid deployment assets, and in various military/civil-purpose applications."

    ----------

    How do we utilize these physics principles and build an effective low-band radar defense network against a F-22? The development of the J-20 Mighty Dragon stealth fighter becomes critical. Except for the rear aspect (due to the current lack of flat nozzles), a J-20 is a close approximation of a F-22 in frontal, side, and underside aspect stealth.

    Chinese engineers need access to a real stealth fighter (e.g. J-20 or F-22) to test and refine their low-band radar defense network. The development of the J-20 allows Chinese engineers the opportunity to evaluate their low-band radar defense network performance and perfect an effective defense against intruding F-22s.


    65th test flight of China's J-20 "2001" stealth fighter. (Sourced from Xinhuanet: 65th test flight of China's stealth fighter J-20 - Xinhua | English.news.cn)

    A precondition to building an effective low-band radar defense network is the construction of a stealthy J-20 Mighty Dragon. By pitting a J-20 against their low-band radar defenses, Chinese engineers can perfect a functioning and reliable defense system.
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    PLA low-band radars to detect stealth fighters

    CCTV: PLA low-band radars designed especially for tracking a stealth fighter like the F-22 (央视曝光:解放军装备针对F22的各型雷达).













    Reference: 央视曝光:解放军装备针对F22的各型雷达_网易新闻论坛

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    The real reason F-22 Raptor was canceled: Superseded by Chinese military technology

    1. The Serbs shot down a state-of-the-art F-117 stealth fighter in 1999.

    2. Chinese military technology, funding, low-band radars, supercomputing power, and network defenses are magnitudes beyond what the Serbs were capable. The integration of a variety of low-band radars, bi-static radars, multi-static radars, airborne AWACS, triangulation, tracking through "statistical averaging over time," and other advanced techniques should easily allow China to locate and track a F-22.

    3. Since the public unveiling of the F-117 and B-2 in 1988, China has had 24 years to prepare in the shooting down of a stealth aircraft.

    4. I hope you guys aren't dumb enough to believe the public explanation that the F-22 was canceled due to budget pressure. Behind closed doors, the Senate oversight committee receives classified reports of the true strength of Chinese air defenses.

    This is simple common sense. Why would the United States cancel its most technologically advanced F-22 air-superiority fighter? The obvious answer is the U.S. wouldn't cancel it unless the F-22 was no longer effective for its intended purpose of fighting a near-peer (i.e. China).

    I can't prove it (because I don't have access to classified reports), but the only logical explanation is the U.S. government has concluded the F-22 is no longer a trump card against China. Hence, the production of the F-22 was intentionally halted. The F-22 is unsuitable, because of its short combat radius of 471 miles and/or the Chinese air defense network.

    In conclusion, shooting down a F-22 is well within China's technological capability. That is the expected outcome of a near-peer in military technology (e.g. a country that can build its own J-20 Mighty Dragon all-aspect stealth fighter). However, the Serbs will always own the distinction of being the first to shoot down a at-the-time state-of-the-art stealth fighter.

    ----------

    Lockheed Martin F-22 Raptor - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    "President Obama signed the National Defense Authorization Act for Fiscal Year 2010 in October 2009, without F-22 funding.[84][85]"
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  11. #11
    Member Irfan Baloch's Avatar
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    J20 has larger payload capacity due to larger size of its internal bay dubbing it as a longer range fighter/ bomber
    I cant find the link for that comparison. but for sure they cant have same payload after going for the larger size just to carry extra fuel

    its meant to operate in very complex air defence environment and must carry enough ordinance to justify the mission and purpose for making it the way it is made.
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    Exported/Downgraded F-35 has beach ball-size RCS of 0.15 m2

    Let's address the obvious question. Why would the United States downgrade exported F-35s?

    Well, the U.S. Congress banned the export of F-22s. The F-35 is close to the F-22 in stealth. Therefore, if foreign countries obtain the full stealth version of the F-35 and make incremental upgrades then foreign countries would possess a fighter close in performance to the F-22.

    Hence, to avoid foreign countries from obtaining stealth technology comparable to U.S. performance, the United States downgraded the exported F-35 to a RCS of 0.15 m2.

    This means the 42 exported/downgraded F-35s expected to be bought by Japan can be easily detected and shot down by China's stealthy J-20 Mighty Dragons or modern overlapping air defense system.

    Stealth rankings:

    1. F-22: 0.0001 m2 RCS (from GlobalSecurity: Radar Cross Section (RCS))
    ["size of marble" on radar]

    2. J-20: 0.0001 m2 (frontal) to 0.005 m2 (rear) (from Australia Air Power: The Chengdu J-20: Peace in Our Time?)
    [intermediate size between marble and golf ball]

    3. F-35: 0.005 m2 (from GlobalSecurity: Radar Cross Section (RCS))
    ["size of golf ball"]

    4. Exported F-35: 0.15 m2 (see citations below)
    ["size of beach ball"]

    5. T-50/Pak Fa: 0.5 m2 (from official Russian Embassy in India website: India, Russia close to pact on next generation fighter)
    [size of a gigantic beach ball]

    ----------

    Not so stealthy: the $15b fighters - National - smh.com.au

    "Not so stealthy: the $15b fighters
    By Craig Skehan and Tom Allard
    March 14, 2006


    Like a beach ball on the radar … the former defence minister Robert Hill with a mock-up of the fighter. (Photo: Jason South)

    THE ability of Australia's new F-35 Joint Strike Fighters to evade detection and enemy attack has been substantially downgraded by the US Defence Department.

    And a Liberal MP and former senior defence analyst, Dennis Jensen, warns that the fighters - at $15 billion the most expensive defence purchase in Australia's history - will be unable to maintain air combat dominance.

    "Do we really want our pilots to be caught in a knife fight in a telephone booth with an aircraft that, aerodynamically, is incapable of mixing it with the threat?" he said in a submission to a parliamentary inquiry.

    A crucial aspect of the fighter's "stealth capability" - radio frequency signatures - has been downgraded from "very low observable" to "low observable", according to the US Defence Department website.

    Peter Goon, a former RAAF flight test engineer, said that would mean the difference between it appearing as a "marble and a beach ball" on enemy radar. The problem with the fighter, Dr Jensen says, is that it can be relatively easily detected from the rear.


    A Federal Government source conceded yesterday that the stealth capability definitions had been changed, but maintained that the "design requirements" for the fighter to "avoid detection" had not.

    Signs that the stealth capability had been lowered first emerged last year, when key performance indicators on the US Defence Department Joint Strike Fighter website changed. The manufacturer of the aircraft, Lockheed Martin, insisted repeatedly to the Herald that the reported shift was an error. Australia's Defence Department also maintained there had been no change.

    But those assurances have proven false. When the Herald contacted the US Defence Department Joint Strike Fighter program office in Washington, a spokeswoman said the latest table on its website was correct. "There is no reason to pull it from there," she said.

    A Lockheed Martin spokesman said yesterday: 'We will have to defer to our clients, the US Government, if that is their decision.'"

    ----------

    eurofighter @ starstreak.net • View topic - Typhoon for South Korea?

    "Export model F-35 is revealed to have a frontal RCS rating in 0.1~0.25 m2 (Hence the LO rating) class thanks to Canada's Defense Ministry disclosure."

    "Scribd
    In the page 2.

    F-35 has a 95% RCS reduction over 4th-gen jets according to Julian Fantino, the vice defense minister of Canada. Going by the standard RCS of a generic 4th gen fighter used by radar vendors (5 m2), that would be 0.25 m2. If he was going by CF-18's RCS of 3 m2, then it would be 0.15 m2."


    Canadian government defense document page 1


    Canadian government defense document page 2


    Canadian government defense document page 3


    Canadian government defense document page 4
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  13. #13
    Member Irfan Baloch's Avatar
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    even their closest ally and "cousins across the pond" i.e. the Britions didnt get access to the secret tech and level of involvment in the development and manufacturing of the F-35 was not what the British expected.
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    F-35/JSF (Joint Strike Fighter) is inferior to J-20 Mighty Dragon


    J-20 Mighty Dragon "2002" opens its parachute for a quick stop.

    1. JSF does not have supercruise capability.

    2. JSF is not an all-aspect stealth fighter. It has less-stealthy LOAN (low observable asymmetric nozzle) nozzles. The flat nozzles on the F-22 are the best design for radar and infrared stealth.

    The J-20 is likely to install flat nozzles when the powerful WS-15 engine is ready, because it is the only feature where it is clearly inferior to the F-22.

    3. JSF has bumps along its entire bottom. There is also a large protrusion above the left airduct for the cannon on the F-35A, which makes it less stealthy.

    4. JSF uses cheaper materials, which compromise stealth.

    5. The combat radius is only half of the J-20.

    6. JSF lacks internal side weapon bays.

    7. The JSF is significantly smaller in physical size and can only carry a much smaller radar with less T/R (transmit/receive) modules. Since it has only one engine, the available power to the radar is also significantly less.

    The JSF radar is clearly inferior to the F-22 and a J-20 equipped with AESA radar.

    8. The J-20 will be able to look down and shoot missiles (with better kinematics or more kinetic energy) at the lower flying F-35. The service ceiling of the J-20 is 65,617 ft. It is only 60,000 ft. for the F-35.

    In conclusion, the JSF is no match for the J-20. The battle plan is for the F-22 to engage the J-20. However, there are only 187 F-22s. The military balance may shift if China produces 300 or more J-20s in the future (circa 2018).

    Sensor fusion doesn't mean much when the J-20 has a larger radar and greater detection range than the F-35. Furthermore, the J-20 has a cleaner design and is stealthier than the F-35. Sending a F-35 against the J-20 is unwise.

    ----------

    Latest J-20 "2002" Mighty Dragon photographs



    Notice the gold transparent RAM on the J-20 cockpit canopy. Only China and the U.S. have this advanced material science technology.


    The prominent DSI (diverterless supersonic inlet) strake was probably extensively modeled with Chinese supercomputers.


    When the WS-15 engine is ready in a few years, China can replace the J-20 LOAN nozzles with flat nozzles. The J-20 will be good to go against the F-22.

    [Note: Thank you to Greyboy2 for the pictures.]
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    Last edited by Martin; 4th October 2012 at 13:47.
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  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Martin View Post
    F-35/JSF (Joint Strike Fighter) is inferior to J-20 Mighty Dragon


    J-20 Mighty Dragon "2002" opens its parachute for a quick stop.

    1. JSF does not have supercruise capability.

    2. JSF is not an all-aspect stealth fighter. It has less-stealthy LOAN (low observable asymmetric nozzle) nozzles. The flat nozzles on the F-22 are the best design for radar and infrared stealth.

    The J-20 is likely to install flat nozzles when the powerful WS-15 engine is ready, because it is the only feature where it is clearly inferior to the F-22.

    3. JSF has bumps along its entire bottom. There is also a large protrusion above the left airduct for the cannon on the F-35A, which makes it less stealthy.

    4. JSF uses cheaper materials, which compromise stealth.

    5. The combat radius is only half of the J-20.

    6. JSF lacks internal side weapon bays.

    7. The JSF is significantly smaller in physical size and can only carry a much smaller radar with less T/R (transmit/receive) modules. Since it has only one engine, the available power to the radar is also significantly less.

    The JSF radar is clearly inferior to the F-22 and a J-20 equipped with AESA radar.

    8. The J-20 will be able to look down and shoot missiles (with better kinematics or more kinetic energy) at the lower flying F-35. The service ceiling of the J-20 is 65,617 ft. It is only 60,000 ft. for the F-35.

    In conclusion, the JSF is no match for the J-20. The battle plan is for the F-22 to engage the J-20. However, there are only 187 F-22s. The military balance may shift if China produces 300 or more J-20s in the future (circa 2018).

    Sensor fusion doesn't mean much when the J-20 has a larger radar and greater detection range than the F-35. Furthermore, the J-20 has a cleaner design and is stealthier than the F-35. Sending a F-35 against the J-20 is unwise.

    ----------

    Latest J-20 "2002" Mighty Dragon photographs



    Notice the gold transparent RAM on the J-20 cockpit canopy. Only China and the U.S. have this advanced material science technology.


    The prominent DSI (diverterless supersonic inlet) strake was probably extensively modeled with Chinese supercomputers.


    When the WS-15 engine is ready in a few years, China can replace the J-20 LOAN nozzles with flat nozzles. The J-20 will be good to go against the F-22.

    [Note: Thank you to Greyboy2 for the pictures.]
    A lame analysis.

    Please let us know the rational behind your claim of Chinese AESA better than F-35 AESA?? Americans are a decade ahead in AESA technologies and is only force operating various AESA radars in its fighters for years.

    When you compare 2 stealth fighters, the small difference in stealth dont count much. It comes down to better Radar, better ECM suite, better missiles and the strategy.

    can you please compare the chinese j-20 with American stealth fighters in those aspects??
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  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by PoKeMon View Post
    A lame analysis.

    Please let us know the rational behind your claim of Chinese AESA better than F-35 AESA?? Americans are a decade ahead in AESA technologies and is only force operating various AESA radars in its fighters for years.

    When you compare 2 stealth fighters, the small difference in stealth dont count much. It comes down to better Radar, better ECM suite, better missiles and the strategy.

    can you please compare the chinese j-20 with American stealth fighters in those aspects??
    Did you bother to read my post carefully?

    1. The J-20 Mighty Dragon has a larger nosecone than the F-35. Hence, it can physically accommodate a larger radar.

    Since a larger radar fits inside the J-20, more transmit/receive (T/R) modules can be placed on the AESA radar. More T/R modules mean greater range, because of more constructive interference. Also, more T/R modules allow for the tracking of more targets.

    2. The J-20 has twin engines. It is a matter of simple physics that two large engines can supply more power to the radar. More power means greater radar range. This is important, because "first detection" implies the ability for "first kill."

    3. If you want to argue that American software for its AESA radars is superior to Chinese than you need to provide convincing proof with reputable citations. China has plenty of experience in operating their domestic AESA radars for the KJ-2000 AWACS, KJ-200 AEW&C, Type 052C Lanzhou-class destroyer, and ground-based AESA radars for many years.

    There is no reason to believe that American software for its AESA radars is necessarily superior to Chinese software for their AESA radars. It is mere speculation to claim otherwise.


    China's electronically scanned array (ESA) radar. This could be AESA or PESA. It doesn't really matter. China possesses expertise with AESA technology in the KJ-2000 and KJ-200. The only issues are miniaturization, low-cost production, and reliability. Even if the depicted ESA radar is PESA, China is only one upgrade away from an AESA radar for the J-10.
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    Last edited by Martin; 4th October 2012 at 23:27.
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  17. #17
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    Third J-20 Mighty Dragon stealth fighter prototype ("2003")? [歼20近日继续试飞 疑似2003号机亮相]





    For the J-10 Vigorous Dragon multirole fighter, there was a total of six prototypes. We should expect a similar number of prototypes for the J-20 Mighty Dragon stealth fighter.

    In the citation below, notice the length of time for tests was six years (e.g. 1998-2004) for the J-10. Similarly, the expected length of time for J-20 tests is also six years (e.g. 2011-2017, with mass production in 2018).

    Jian-10 (J-10, F-10) Multirole Fighter Aircraft - SinoDefence.com

    "The J-10 was first flown on 22 March 1998, with six prototypes produced for flight tests. Six production examples in the single-seat fighter variant were delivered to the PLAAF Flight Test & Training Base / 13th Test Regiment at Cangzhou Airbase for operational test and evaluation in March 2003. The aircraft was certified for design finalisation in early 2004. The first operational J-10 fighter unit was activated in the PLAAF 44th Air Division / 132nd Fighter Regiment based at Luliang Airbase in the southern Yuannan Province in July 2004. The two-seater J-10S first flew in December 2003 and was certified in 2005."

    [Note: Thank you to Greyboy2 for the pictures.]

    ----------

    Can a moderator please delete the attachment below for me? I can't figure out how to do it! Thanks.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails xMhU9.jpg  
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    Last edited by Aryan_B; 18th October 2012 at 08:10.
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  18. #18
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    J-20 Mighty Dragon with opened access panels


    J-20 stealth fighter with opened access panels

    This is a high-definition photograph that we haven't previously seen. Many of the access panels on the J-20 are open for the engineers and technicians to prep the stealth fighter.

    [Note: Thank you to Canadian Icehole and Bltizo for the picture.]
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    Last edited by Martin; 20th October 2012 at 23:14.
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  19. #19
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    Deducing properties of two-toned paint on J-20 Mighty Dragon stealth fighter radome


    The different-colored paint on the J-20 radome is transparent to X-band radar waves due to necessity.

    1. We know for a fact that an AESA radar has transmit and receive modules. Therefore, the paint on the J-20 radome must be transparent to X-band radar waves for both emission and reception.

    Theoretically, you could argue that the paint may serve a function like a one-way silvered mirror. Hypothetically, the radome paint could permit only emission and reflect (or absorb) incoming enemy X-band radar if you can build a direction-dependent property into the paint, like a one-way mirror.

    I think this is unlikely, because the radar receivers would have to be located elsewhere on the body of the aircraft (e.g. wings and/or fuselage). This is inefficient and expensive.

    Therefore, we will presume the radome paint has to permit both emission and reception of X-band radar waves (which is necessary to provide the fine resolution to guide an air-to-air missile to its target). Thus, the radome paint must be transparent in X-band.

    The radome paint may absorb radar waves in bands outside of X-band.

    The radome paint has a different color and composition from the rest of the RAM (radar absorbent material) on the J-20, because the RAM on the rest of the aircraft is designed to maximize absorption in X-band.

    2. If the radome paint is transparent in X-band then how does the J-20 stay stealthy in light of enemy X-band radar? Wouldn't enemy X-band radar pass through the transparent radome paint and composite nose to strike and reflect off of the interior AESA radar? The obvious solution is to have interior retractable panels coated with RAM.

    Think of it this way. Divide the J-20 nose into four sections. Place four equal-sized RAM-coated panels underneath the radome. When the J-20 is in stealth mode, the interior RAM-coated panels are flush against the inside of the radome walls.

    Incoming radar will penetrate the radome paint and composite walls. The enemy X-band radar will strike the RAM-coated interior panel and be absorbed. Hence, the J-20 remains stealthy.

    When the J-20 is in search or attack mode, the four interior RAM-coated radome panels are hydraulically moved backwards. This allows the J-20 AESA radar to emit and receive X-band radar waves. If the J-20 pilot wants to shift back into stealth mode, the RAM-coated panels are hydraulically moved back into place against the composite radome walls and the fighter is stealthy once again.

    3. However, the most elegant solution is to have a radome paint composed of "phase change material" (PCM). I just don't know if the material currently exists to permit switching back-and-forth between transparency and opaqueness to X-band radar waves. Basically, I'm looking for a material where I can run an electric current through it to change its optical property with respect to X-band radar.

    Phase Change Materials

    "Phase Change Materials
    Annual Review of Materials Research
    Vol. 39: 25-48 (Volume publication date August 2009)
    First published online as a Review in Advance on March 24, 2009
    DOI: 10.1146/annurev-matsci-082908-145405
    Simone Raoux
    IBM/Macronix PRCAM Joint Project, IBM Almaden Research Center, San Jose, California 95120; email: [email protected]
    FULL-TEXT| PDFPDF (3141 KB)| Permissions
    Citation: Web of Science Download| Email notification|
    Web of Science : Related Records 畖 Times Cited: 29
    ABSTRACT

    Phase change materials (PCMs) can exist in at least two different phases (an amorphous and one or more crystalline phases), and they can be switched repeatedly between these phases. The different phases have distinctly different physical properties such as electrical conductivity, optical reflectivity, mass density, or thermal conductivity. These differences and the repeatability of the switching give these materials the ability to store information. Rewritable compact discs, digital versatile discs, and Blu-ray™ discs store information in thin films of PCMs, using the difference in reflectivity between the phases as the storage mechanism. A novel solid-state memory technology that applies the difference in electrical resistivity is currently being developed, and possible future applications include reconfigurable logic. This article reviews the unique set of properties of PCMs and their current and future applications."

    [Note: Thank you to Greyboy2 for the picture.]
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    Last edited by Martin; 31st October 2012 at 05:12.
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  20. #20
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    Chengdu J-20 Radar Absorbment Material


    Look closely at the Chengdu J-20 cockpit canopy. You will notice it is covered in gold-colored transparent RAM (radar absorbment material). It is far more technologically challenging to develop transparent RAM than normal opaque RAM for the rest of the plane's surface. For example, the Russians have shown an inability to develop gold-colored transparent RAM. In three years, we have never seen a T-50/Pak-Fa with a gold-colored transparent cockpit canopy.

    In the mainstream press, I've noticed a shift away from questioning the Chengdu J-20's external stealth design; which I have analyzed to death. It's stealthy. Get over it.

    Now, the battleground shifts to the competency of the RAM material for the Chengdu J-20. The mainstream press is now questioning China's RAM technology.

    IN FOCUS: Advanced Chinese fighters: upping the ante

    "The obstacles in China's path to developing advanced fighters are formidable. While the airframes of the J-20 and J-21 [ie. J-31] have clear low observable characteristics, Chinese capabilities in the crucial area of radar absorbent materials are difficult to gauge. The Northrop B-2 bomber, F-22 and F-35 require constant support to ensure their highly confidential coatings remain effective. The nature of these coatings is among the USA's most closely guarded secrets. Indeed, the USA was so intent to preserve its lead in stealth that it steadfastly declined to sell the F-22 even to its closest allies."
    Allow me to present my arguments to refute the latest challenge to China's stealth technology. China's RAM is just as effective as American RAM for the following reasons:

    1. China is the world leader in publishing research on materials science. RAM is based solely on materials science. Hence, developing RAM should be easy for China as the world leader in materials science.

    Global Research Reports - Research Analytics - Thomson Reuters

    "Asia now produces half the world's papers in materials science, China has become the largest single country producer, and the USA and EU, the report notes, should review funding to reverse declining shares in vital research."

    Asia Leads Research Output in Materials Science

    "In terms of the number of papers produced and by number of citations, Asian institutions in China, Japan, Singapore, and South Korea dominate those in other countries."

    China Ascendant


    "Measured by patent applications or journal articles, growth in Chinese scientific output is stupendous....China's largest share of world publications is in materials science, with papers by its authors accounting for 20.8% of output over the five years ending in 2008."

    2. In item #1 above, I made the argument that China is the world leader in materials science research. Now, I will prove that China publishes cutting-edge research on RAM. Radar can be either in the microwave or radio range. Materials that suppress microwave energy is a form of RAM.

    The following citation is particularly relevant, because it suppresses radar that is exactly within the X-band range (ie. 7 to 11.2 gigahertz).

    Preparation and microwave absorption properties of foam-based honeycomb sandwich structures

    "Preparation and microwave absorption properties of foam-based honeycomb sandwich structures
    Yanfei He[1,2] and Rongzhou Gong[2]

    Abstract

    Radar-absorbing structures having foam-based honeycomb sandwich structures (FBHSS) were fabricated through a conventional foaming technique. Conductive fillers such as carbonyl iron/nickel fibers (CINF) and magnetic metal micropowder (MMP) were added to polyurethane foams so as to efficiently increase the absorbing capacity of FBHSS. A honeycomb sandwich structure, which was made of composite face sheets and foam cores, was used as a supporter to enhance mechanical strength. A matching layer made of nanotitanium powder and hydrogenation acrylonitrile-butadiene rubber composites was used for the face sheet, which allows the incident electromagnetic wave to enter and largely get attenuated through the absorbing system. Polyurethane foams containing CINFs and MMP of which a suitable content contributing to a broad bandwidth and high loss, were used as the core material. The measurement results show reflection loss was less than -10 dB over the frequency range of 3–18 GHz, which has a minimum value of - 26 dB at 14.2 GHz."

    Optimization of two-layer electromagnetic wave absorbers composed of magnetic and dielectric materials in gigahertz frequency band

    "Optimization of two-layer electromagnetic wave absorbers composed of magnetic and dielectric materials in gigahertz frequency band
    Yanfei He, Rongzhou Gong, Yan Nie, Huahui He, and Zhensheng Zhao
    J. Appl. Phys. 98, 084903 (2005); Cookies Required (5 pages)

    Department of Electronic Science and Technology, Huazhong University of Science and Technology, Wuhan 430074, People’s Republic of China

    (Received 20 December 2004; accepted 14 September 2005; published online 21 October 2005)

    Abstract

    Both experimentally and theoretically, a two-layer electromagnetic (EM) wave absorber exhibits the possibility of meeting the demand for effective EM wave absorbers. The first layer, made up of magnetic micpowder (MMP), has a large permeability and magnetic loss, while the second layer, comprised of MMP and nanotitanium powder, has a frequency dispersion with the parameters of permittivity and permeability to match the incidence free space over a wide frequency range. The predicted results are based on the modulus of permittivity (permeability) which obeys a logarithmic law of mixtures, and the loss tangent is related through a linear law of mixtures. A linear regression analysis performed on the data points provides constants that can be used to predict the effective parameters at different frequencies. Finally, a program is presented that computes the optimum amount of MMP in the second layer and the required thickness for each layer. The predicted results agree quite well with the measured data."

    3. In items #1 and #2, I highlighted China's world leadership in materials science and its research into gigahertz-suppressing RAM. This establishes China's deep understanding of the theoretical framework behind RAM. Now, we will examine China's progress with transparent RAM.

    Over the years, we have seen China experiment with gold-colored transparent RAM technology. It was first incorporated into a Chengdu J-10B. Presumably, the technology has matured and we can see it on the Chengdu J-20 cockpit canopy (see top picture at the beginning of this post).

    China had installed a gold-tinted radar-reducing cockpit canopy on the Chengdu J-10B.


    Chengdu J-10A in the foreground with clear cockpit canopy. J-10B with gold-tinted cockpit canopy in the background. [Note: Thank you to MaoZedong for the picture and SiegeCrossbow for the sharp eye in noticing the gold tint.]

    4. There is an abundant amount of freely available information on RAM and the math equations to perform the calculations. For example, see the reference below.

    Reference: Review of Radar Absorbing Materials.pdf

    5. China probably has access to American RAM materials. We all know China has friendly relations with Serbia, Pakistan, and Iran. It is reasonable to conclude China would be willing to trade (e.g. economic, military, technological, or political assistance) for a sample of American RAM material.

    5a. The Serbs shot down an American F-117 stealth aircraft in 1999. If China traded (e.g. refused to recognize Kosovo independence at the UN Security Council via permanent Chinese veto) for a sample of the American F-117 RAM material then it means China has been studying American RAM for thirteen years.

    5b. An U.S. stealth helicopter crashed in Pakistan in 2011. The stealth material has little value to Pakistan, because there is no Pakistani stealth aircraft project. However, China would like an updated look at American stealth material. Would you like to trade a sample of the American RAM for more JF-17 fighter aircraft?

    Reference: JF-17 Thunders: Pakistan to get 50 Chinese jets in six months

    5c. Iran shot down/captured an American RQ-170 "Sentinel" stealth drone in December 2011. Since Iran is under Western economic sanctions, it is reasonable for Iran to trade a sample of the stealth drone RAM to China for urgent economic supplies.

    6. Taiwan has developed RAM material for its stealth ship. According to press reports, it seems quite effective against radar. Taiwan is basically a technological sieve for China. We know Taiwanese are vulnerable to the honeytrap. If the Chinese want to look at the Taiwanese RAM technology, it's reasonable to assume they'll honeytrap someone on Taiwan to obtain the RAM.

    References:

    Top-secret embarrassment: Stealth ship laptop missing in Taiwan
    "A top-secret computer from a state-of-art stealth warship has vanished, the Taiwanese military revealed on Monday. There are fears the laptop and its classified content is now in the hands of the Chinese.

    The computer was installed on board a Kuang Hua No. 6 class guided missile vessel. It belonged to a private contractor and was used for testing confidential communication equipment and procedures.

    Last month it disappeared, while the missile ship was stationed at the southern port of Tsoying, Taiwan's largest naval base. An internal investigation failed to determine how it happened."

    Sex lured Taiwan general to become China spy
    "A spy, described as 'tall, beautiful and chic' lured Taiwan general Lo Hsien-che into allegedly revealing state secrets"

    -----

    In conclusion, China has a very strong domestic research and development program in materials science and RAM. Also, China had multiple opportunities to obtain American RAM from Serbia, Pakistan, and Iran. Finally, China probably has access to Taiwanese RAM. Since Chinese scientists most likely have access to RAM technology from China, U.S., and Taiwan, it is probable that Chinese RAM is on par with American RAM.
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    Last edited by Martin; 13th November 2012 at 11:50.
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