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    J-10 "Vigorous Dragon" Multirole Fighter Jet

    A little surprising to see there isn't a thread for the J-10 despite it being an important asset of the PLAAF. I'll use this thread for an updated comparison table with other single engined multirole fighters, news and updates for the J-10B and general analysis.

    General Characteristics:

    Chengdu J-10(A) Lockheed Martin F-16(C Block 50/52) Saab JAS 39 Gripen(C/D)
    Length: 15.49m (50.82ft) 15.06m (49.51ft) 14.10m (46.26ft)
    Wingspan: 9.75m (31.99ft) 9.96m (32.68ft) 8.40m (27.56ft)
    Height: 5.43m (17.81ft) 4.88m (16.01ft) 4.50m (14.76ft)
    Wing Area: 33.10m (356.29ft) 27.87m (299.99ft) 30.00m (322.92ft)
    Empty Weight: 9750kg (21495lb) 8570kg (18900lb) 6800kg (12600lb)
    Loaded Weight: 12400kg (28600 lb) 12000kg (26500 lb) 8500kg (18700 lb)
    Maximum Takeoff Weight: 19277kg (42500 lb) 19200kg (42300 lb) 14000kg (31000 lb)
    Powerplant: 1 Saturn-Lyulka AL-31FN afterburning turbofan or WS-10A Taihang afterburning turbofan 1 General Electric F110-GE-100 afterburning turbofan 1 Volvo Aero RM12 afterburning turbofan
    Dry thrust: 79.43kN/89.17kN (17860lbf/19000lbf) 76.30kN (17155lbf) 54.00kN (12100lbf)
    Thrust with Afterburner: 125.00kN/130kN (27999lbf/29000lbf) 127.00kN (28600lbf) 80.50kN (18100lbf)

    Performance:

    Chengdu J-10(A) Lockheed Martin F-16(C Block 50/52) Saab JAS 39 Gripen(C/D)
    Maximum Speed: Mach 2.2 at altitude, Mach 1.2 at sea level Mach 2.0 at altitude, Mach 1.2 at sea level Mach 2.0 at altitude, Mach 1.0 at sea level
    Combat Radius: 550km (342 miles) 550km (342 miles) 800km (497 miles)
    Ferry Range: 3900km (with drop tanks) 4220km (with drop tanks) 3200km (with drop tanks)
    Surface Ceiling: 18000m (59055ft) 15240m+ (50000ft+) 15240m (50000ft)
    Wing Loading: 381kg/m (78.0lb/ft) 431kg/m (88.3lb/ft) 283kg/m (58.0lb/ft)
    Thrust/Weight Ratio: 1.024 (with AL-31); 1.085 (with WS-10A) 1.095 0.970

    Armament:

    Chengdu J-10(A) Lockheed Martin F-16(C Block 50/52) Saab JAS 39 Gripen(C/D)
    Guns: 1 23mm Type 23-2 Twin-Barrel cannon (unspecified rounds) 1 20mm M61 Vulcan 6-barreled gatling cannon (511 rounds) 1 27mm Mauser BK-27 Revolver cannon (120 rounds)
    Hardpoints: 11 (6 under-wing, 5 under-fuselage) with capacity for 6000kg of external fuel and ordnance 11 (2 wing-tip, 6 under-wing, 3 under-fuselage) with capacity for 7700kg of external fuel and ordnance 8 (6 under-wing, 2 under-fuselage) with capacity for 4200kg of external fuel and ordnance
    Rockets: 90mm unguided rocket pods 70mm Hydra unguided rocket pods OR 70mm CRV7 unguided rocket pods OR Zuni 127mm unguided rocket pods 135mm unguided rocket pods
    Rockets: 90mm unguided rocket pods 70mm Hydra unguided rocket pods OR 70mm CRV7 unguided rocket pods OR Zuni 127mm unguided rocket pods 135mm unguided rocket pods
    Air to Air Missiles: PL-8, PL-9, PL-11, PL-12 AIM-7, AIM-9, AIM-120, IRIS-T, Python-4 AIM-9, AIM-120, IRIS-T, MICA, Skyflash, Meteor
    Air to Ground Missiles: PJ-9, YJ-9K Maverick, HARM, JASSM Maverick, KEPD-350
    Anti-Ship Missiles: Unspecified Harpoon, Penguin RBS-15
    Bombs: LT-2, LS-6, unguided bombs CBU-87, CBU-89, CBU-97, Mark 84, Mark 83, Mark 82, GBU-39, GBU-10, GBU-12, GBU-24, GBU-27 Paveway III, JDAM, AGM-154, WCMD, B61 (nuclear bomb) GBU-12, Bk.90, Mark 82
    Other: 3 external fuel drop-tanks (1 under-fuselage, 2 under-wing) for extended range and loitering time SUU-42A/A Flares/Infrared decoys dispenser pod and chaff pod OR AN/ALQ-131 & AN/ALQ-184 ECM pods OR LANTIRN, Lockheed Martin Sniper XR & LITENING targeting pods OR
    up to 3 300/330/370/600 US gallon Sargent Fletcher drop tanks for ferry flight/extended range and loitering time OR UTC Aerospace DB-110 long range EO/IR sensor pod on centerline
    Unspecified

    (I'll continuously update this table when I get more information and provide links and videos after I meet the 10 posts requirement rule)

    "Numerous images of a new J-10 variant (The J-10B) have surfaced, showing a prototype J-10 modified with increased radar absorbent material, next generation of integrated EW suite, increased composites, new generation avionics, MAW, a diverterless supersonic inlet (DSI), an infra-red search and track (IRST) sensor, modified vertical stabiliser and wings, ventral fins, housings fitted under the wings, upgraded WS-10B engine, next generation of solid-state integrated electronics, and a modified nose with an AESA radar."
    -Wikipedia: J-10-Variants
    Look up the J-10AY and J-10SY "1st August Group" MAKS 2013 demonstration on Youtube for now if you would like an impression of the J-10's capabilities. I'll embed it when I can.

    Analysis:

    Aerodynamics wise, the J-10A is superior to a Block 50/52 F-16 in all aspects except the F-16 being slightly lighter (where the J-10 has more powerful engines to compensate). The J-10A can fly quicker and fly higher, so coupled with good electronics, could represent an excellent look down shoot down capability in a J-10A vs F-16 battle.

    The F-16 carries more weapons though, and thus far, continues to have better electronics. To fully utilise the J-10 airframe's potential then, China needs to continue working on its radars, targeting pods etc. The F-16 also has the advantage of having a huge variety of assets available to fit on its hardpoints which makes it very versatile for missions. It'll be a long time before China can develop the same quality and quantity of available supportive hardpoint assets. It also has better ferry range, which is likely attributed to better fuel pods.

    The Gripen C/D variant isn't particularly good at anything, with points perhaps being awarded for being the smallest and thus potentially the hardest to see in a WVR dogfight. It also has a seemingly anomalous unrefueled combat range which is greater than both the bigger J-10 and F-16 fighters (can someone verify the figure is correct please?). Other than that, not much to give it props for.

    The J-10B does seem to cover most of the small drawbacks in the J-10A, such as further use of composites for a lighter airframe, more RAM to reduce the F-16 electronic advantage, AESA radar, EW suite etc. (and once it is in service, I'll refresh the comparison table with a J-10B, F-16 E/F Block 60 and the Gripen NG comparison) The PLAAF's biggest problem now it seems is a lack of training hours available for the J-10 pilots. The pilot factor is the last thing missing in an extremely formidable asset.
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    Last edited by The Quantifier; 15th September 2013 at 22:29.

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    Administrator Aryan_B's Avatar
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    Re: J-10 "Vigorous Dragon" Multirole Fighter Jet

    [MENTION=4163]The Quantifier[/MENTION] good point this thread is made a sticky please post all J10 information on this thread please guys. Any good pics?
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    Senior Member Fassi's Avatar
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    Re: J-10 "Vigorous Dragon" Multirole Fighter Jet

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    Re: J-10 "Vigorous Dragon" Multirole Fighter Jet

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    Re: J-10 "Vigorous Dragon" Multirole Fighter Jet

    Oh I remember, Lord of the Ring -

    Pakistan's future J-10B Vigorous Dragon
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    Re: J-10 "Vigorous Dragon" Multirole Fighter Jet

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    Re: J-10 "Vigorous Dragon" Multirole Fighter Jet

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    Re: J-10 "Vigorous Dragon" Multirole Fighter Jet

    Chengdu Aircraft Industry Group to produce 1,200 J-10 fighters


    Chengdu Aircraft Industry Group will produce a total of 1,200 J-10 fighters for the PLA Force to counter F-16 fighters over the Taiwan Strait and Western Pacific, according to our sister paper Want Daily.

    The Moscow-based Voice of Russia says the J-10A uses the Lyulka-Saturn AL-31FN turbofan engine imported from Russia due to difficulties in the development of China's WS-10 Taihang engine. The newer J-10B variant will be fitted with the Taihang engine.

    Geng Ruguang, senior vice president of China Aviation Industry Corporation, said the development of the J-10, Taihang engine and PL-12 air-to-air missile shows China has become the fourth nation in the world to design and produce its own advanced fighter.

    Geng said the J-10B's active phased array airborne radar enables the fighter to track six targets and engage four of them simultaneously. Geng also said the J-10's radar system can also lock on to US F-16 and Japanese F-2 fighters without difficulty. Furthermore, the PL-12 air-to-air missile designed for the J-10 boasts similar specs to the US-built AIM-120 air-to-air missile used by the F-16A/B fighters of Taiwan's air force.

    Taiwan currently has 388 fighters, of which 145 are F-16A/Bs purchased from the United States. The imbalance in the size of the size of the fighter fleets on opposing sides of the Taiwan Strait is a matter of serious concern for Taiwan's security.

    Between 2014 and 2015, 36 J-10B fighters will also be supplied to the Pakistan Air Force under the name FC-20,

    http://www.wantchinatimes.com/news-s...00093&cid=1101
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    Elite Member sparkling's Avatar
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    Re: J-10 "Vigorous Dragon" Multirole Fighter Jet

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    Professionals Martin's Avatar
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    Re: J-10 "Vigorous Dragon" Multirole Fighter Jet

    J-10B Vigorous Dragon carries missiles and extra fuel pods to extend its flight range


    J-10B Vigorous Dragon carries missiles and extra fuel pods to extend its flight range.

    [Note: Thank you to Aimarraul for the picture.]

    ----------

    WS-10A engine for J-10B Vigorous Dragon fighter in mass production


    WS-10A engine (with gearbox at the bottom) is designed to power the J-10B Vigorous Dragon fighter. This version of the WS-10A turbofan engine is said to have 13.2 ton maximum thrust. There are several wrapped engines near the floor.

    [Note: Thank you to Pinko for the post.]
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    Last edited by Martin; 19th December 2013 at 15:29.
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    Re: J-10 "Vigorous Dragon" Multirole Fighter Jet

    J-10B Vigorous Dragon is comparable to F-16E/Block 60


    "Overall, the J-10B is thought to be comparable to the American F-16E/Block 60."

    AESA - active electronically scanned array (or phased array radar)
    IRST - infrared search and track. J-10B has Laser Rangefinder (LR) too. Should be IRST/LR.
    RAM - radar absorbent material
    DSI - diverterless supersonic inlet
    ECM - electronic countermeasure
    MAW - missile approach warning
    EW - electronic warfare
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    Re: J-10 "Vigorous Dragon" Multirole Fighter Jet

    J-10 LOOKS GOOD IN PAF COLOURS

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    Re: J-10 "Vigorous Dragon" Multirole Fighter Jet

    Quote Originally Posted by Aryan_B View Post
    J-10 LOOKS GOOD IN PAF COLOURS

    We dont have it yet.

    Insh'Allah we will have it.
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    Re: J-10 "Vigorous Dragon" Multirole Fighter Jet

    Quote Originally Posted by Aryan_B View Post
    J-10 LOOKS GOOD IN PAF COLOURS

    Great plane.
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    Re: J-10 "Vigorous Dragon" Multirole Fighter Jet

    Chengdu Aircraft Industry designing more advanced J-10C fighter



    The J-10B — the upgrade version of China's J-10 fighter — recently entered service with the People's Liberation Army, with its designer Chengdu Aircraft Industry Group already developing the more advanced J-10C, reports the Hong Kong-based Phoenix Television.

    Equipped with an active electronically scanned array radar, Phoenix Television stated that the J-10B has the capability to take out Japan's F-15J fighters if an aerial confrontation were to occur over the disputed Diaoyutai islands (called Senkaku in Japan and Diaoyu in China) in the East China Sea. The fighter is also built with radar absorbent material and better diverterless supersonic inlet, while its stealth capability has also been increased compared to its predecessor, the J-10A.

    China is the only nation in the world which has the ability to build its own diverterless supersonic inlet other than the United States, the report said. With this technology, the J-10B is believed to be the best 4.5 generation fighter in the Asia-Pacific region. Its helmet-mounted display system designed for J-10B pilots reacts faster and it is also very similar to the US-built F-16E/F Block 60 and French-built Rafale.

    However, the J-10B is primarily designed as a fighter for aerial engagement. A multirole fighter will be needed for China to conduct ground attack missions as well as aerial combat missions against potential enemies in the region and therefore the PLA Air Force and Navy Air Force will need the more advanced J-10C, Phoenix Television said.

    http://www.wantchinatimes.com/news-s...00003&cid=1101
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    Re: J-10 "Vigorous Dragon" Multirole Fighter Jet

    Chinese J-10A armed with PL-12 missile is far superior to French Rafale armed with MICA missile


    PL-12 / SD-10A on display at Datangshan in 2010 (Zhenguan Studio, 2010, Air Power Australia).


    A MICA EM missile (top) and MICA IR (bottom), displayed at Farnborough in 1998 (Duncan Lennox)

    1. The Chinese PL-12 air-to-air missile has higher potential energy in combat. The Chinese J-10A has a service ceiling of 18,000m. The French Rafale has a lower service ceiling of 16,800m. For combat, the same missile launched at a higher altitude (such as 18,000m) will fly further.

    2. The Chinese PL-12 missile has higher kinetic energy in combat. A missile fired from a Mach 2.2 J-10A will fly much further than a missile fired from a much slower Mach 1.8 Rafale. The J-10A has a faster "maximum speed of Mach 2.2 at altitude" than the significantly slower "Mach 1.8+" for the French Rafale.

    3. The Chinese PL-12 missile is significantly larger in size and can carry more rocket propellant. More rocket fuel means greater range.

    Chinese PL-12 missile has a volume of 3.7m x pi x (0.1m^2) = 0.116 cubic meters

    French MICA missile has a volume of 3.1m x pi x (0.08m^2) = 0.062 cubic meters

    In conclusion, the Chinese PL-12 has almost twice the volume of the much smaller French Rafale missile.
    __________________________________________________ _______________________________

    PL-12 | GlobalSecurity

    "The missile is thought to correspond to the PL-12 designation, which is also associated with the SD-10 designation, possibly for export purposes. Like the basic R-77, Project 129 appears to have a body diameter of 200 mm., with a length of around 3.7 meters (12.1 ft.)."
    -----

    Mica RF - Deagel

    "Mica RF
    IOC: 1996
    Also Known As: Mica EM
    Origin: France
    Contractor/s: MBDA

    Dimensions

    Diameter: 160 millimeter
    Length: 3.10 meter"
    ----------

    China's J-10A Vigorous Dragon is superior to French Rafale


    China's J-10A flies higher, faster, and carry longer-range PL-12 AAM (air-to-air missile) than French Rafale.


    The J-10A carries four PL-12 missiles with 70+ km range that can easily shoot down a French Rafale carrying shorter 50km range MICA missiles.

    The J-10A has a service ceiling of 18,000m. The French Rafale has a lower service ceiling of 16,800m. For combat, the same missile launched at a higher altitude (such as 18,000m) will fly further.

    For within-visual-range (WVR) combat, a J-10A can circle above and swoop down with guns blazing on a helpless French Rafale. On the other hand, a French Rafale cannot engage a high-flying J-10A at 18,000m (which is 1,200m beyond the French Rafale's service ceiling).

    The J-10A can carry four PL-12 beyond-visual-range (BVR) missiles with 70+ km range. However, the MICA missile carried by the French Rafale has a much shorter 50km range (according to GlobalSecurity).

    There is an alternative citation for a higher 100km range for the PL-12 (see International Assessment and Strategy Center > Research > The Air Balance on the Taiwan Strait).

    The J-10A has a faster "maximum speed of Mach 2.2 at altitude" than the significantly slower "Mach 1.8+" for the French Rafale. This means the J-10A can fire its four PL-12 missiles at a French Rafale at 60km and fly home safely. The French Rafale's slower speed means it cannot chase down a J-10A.

    The final point is the deadliness of China's PL-12 missiles.

    Advanced but Unproved Chinese BVR Medium Range Missile SD-10

    "Its seven recent test firings all hit the targets.
    ...
    Experts believe that domestic SD-10's performance has surpassed the U.S. AIM-120A/B, Russian R-77 and the French MICA (Missile d'Interception et de Combat Aerien), etc., and close to the AIM-120C."

    [Note: PL-12/SD-10 refers to the same missile.]

    ----------

    References (for Wikipedia articles, see primary source footnotes):

    Chengdu J-10 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    Dassault Rafale - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    Mica | GlobalSecurity
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    Last edited by Martin; 28th February 2014 at 01:19.
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  18. #18
    Elite Member Agnostic_Indian's Avatar
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    Re: J-10 "Vigorous Dragon" Multirole Fighter Jet

    Quote Originally Posted by Martin View Post
    Chinese J-10A armed with PL-12 missile is far superior to French Rafale armed with MICA missile


    PL-12 / SD-10A on display at Datangshan in 2010 (Zhenguan Studio, 2010, Air Power Australia).


    A MICA EM missile (top) and MICA IR (bottom), displayed at Farnborough in 1998 (Duncan Lennox)

    1. The Chinese PL-12 air-to-air missile has higher potential energy in combat. The Chinese J-10A has a service ceiling of 18,000m. The French Rafale has a lower service ceiling of 16,800m. For combat, the same missile launched at a higher altitude (such as 18,000m) will fly further.

    2. The Chinese PL-12 missile has higher kinetic energy in combat. A missile fired from a Mach 2.2 J-10A will fly much further than a missile fired from a much slower Mach 1.8 Rafale. The J-10A has a faster "maximum speed of Mach 2.2 at altitude" than the significantly slower "Mach 1.8+" for the French Rafale.

    3. The Chinese PL-12 missile is significantly larger in size and can carry more rocket propellant. More rocket fuel means greater range.

    Chinese PL-12 missile has a volume of 3.7m x pi x (0.1m^2) = 0.116 meters cubed

    French MICA missile has a volume of 3.1m x pi x (0.08m^2) = 0.062 meters cubed

    In conclusion, the Chinese PL-12 has almost twice the volume of the much smaller French Rafale missile.
    __________________________________________________ _______________________________

    PL-12 | GlobalSecurity

    "The missile is thought to correspond to the PL-12 designation, which is also associated with the SD-10 designation, possibly for export purposes. Like the basic R-77, Project 129 appears to have a body diameter of 200 mm., with a length of around 3.7 meters (12.1 ft.)."
    -----

    Mica RF - Deagel

    "Mica RF
    IOC: 1996
    Also Known As: Mica EM
    Origin: France
    Contractor/s: MBDA

    Dimensions

    Diameter: 160 millimeter
    Length: 3.10 meter"
    ----------

    China's J-10A Vigorous Dragon is superior to French Rafale


    China's J-10A flies higher, faster, and carry longer-range PL-12 AAM (air-to-air missile) than French Rafale.


    The J-10A carries four PL-12 missiles with 70+ km range that can easily shoot down a French Rafale carrying shorter 50km range MICA missiles.

    The J-10A has a service ceiling of 18,000m. The French Rafale has a lower service ceiling of 16,800m. For combat, the same missile launched at a higher altitude (such as 18,000m) will fly further.

    For within-visual-range (WVR) combat, a J-10A can circle above and swoop down with guns blazing on a helpless French Rafale. On the other hand, a French Rafale cannot engage a high-flying J-10A at 18,000m (which is 1,200m beyond the French Rafale's service ceiling).

    The J-10A can carry four PL-12 beyond-visual-range (BVR) missiles with 70+ km range. However, the MICA missile carried by the French Rafale has a much shorter 50km range (according to GlobalSecurity).

    There is an alternative citation for a higher 100km range for the PL-12 (see International Assessment and Strategy Center > Research > The Air Balance on the Taiwan Strait).

    The J-10A has a faster "maximum speed of Mach 2.2 at altitude" than the significantly slower "Mach 1.8+" for the French Rafale. This means the J-10A can fire its four PL-12 missiles at a French Rafale at 60km and fly home safely. The French Rafale's slower speed means it cannot chase down a J-10A.

    The final point is the deadliness of China's PL-12 missiles.

    Advanced but Unproved Chinese BVR Medium Range Missile SD-10

    "Its seven recent test firings all hit the targets.
    ...
    Experts believe that domestic SD-10's performance has surpassed the U.S. AIM-120A/B, Russian R-77 and the French MICA (Missile d'Interception et de Combat Aerien), etc., and close to the AIM-120C."

    [Note: PL-12/SD-10 refer to the same missile.]

    ----------

    References (for Wikipedia articles, see primary source footnotes):

    Chengdu J-10 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    Dassault Rafale - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    Mica | GlobalSecurity
    you couldn't find a single advantage Rafale has ?? You carry the title of professional in this forum so you should be more balanced and honest in your analysis..that's my humble suggestion.
    *Be able to defend your arguments in a rational way. Otherwise, all you have is an opinion.
    Marilyn vos Savant

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    Senior Member Wajid47's Avatar
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    Re: J-10 "Vigorous Dragon" Multirole Fighter Jet

    Quote Originally Posted by Agnostic_Indian View Post
    you couldn't find a single advantage Rafale has ?? You carry the title of professional in this forum so you should be more balanced and honest in your analysis..that's my humble suggestion.
    I think it imo unfair that you question someone's integrity on their opinion. It is for others to make claims for Rafale if they believe in comparison its better
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    Re: J-10 "Vigorous Dragon" Multirole Fighter Jet

    Quote Originally Posted by Wajid47 View Post
    I think it imo unfair that you question someone's integrity on their opinion. It is for others to make claims for Rafale if they believe in comparison its better
    opinion is something we all have..I believe mki is better than f 16 blk 52 but if i write a analysis where all the areas where mki has an advantage is mentioned and areas where f 16 has obvious advantage is ignored, will it look good ?
    I am not asking him to portray Rafale is better I am only suggesting him that don't completely ignore the areas where Rafale(or any other aircraft) has advantages..that's unfair and misleading the average readers..He should mention such areas also(unless he believes that Rafale has not even a single advantage) and then make his point that overall j10 b better than Rafale..
    just my suggestion...No intent to offend him.
    Last edited by Agnostic_Indian; 28th February 2014 at 09:50.
    *Be able to defend your arguments in a rational way. Otherwise, all you have is an opinion.
    Marilyn vos Savant

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