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Thread: Overwhelming majority of Baloch favour being part of Pakistan: UK survey

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    Overwhelming majority of Baloch favour being part of Pakistan: UK survey

    Pakistan’s immature media anchors and opportunist politicians need to understand the new game plan; this involves tarnishing the image of Pakistan’s military in order to destabilize and eventually disintegrate the country for a larger scheme of reshaping the world to the advantage of the sole super power. Pakistan’s current troubles with India and the USA have their roots in its all-weather friendship with China. Those who want to keep China away from taking advantage of Pakistan’s geo-strategic location in order to become the “numero-uno” global power can go to any extent. And the immediate action on cards is Pakistan’s disintegration to snatch Balochistan away, along with the port of Gwadar, from Pakistan by establishing a Free Balochistan State. It can now be clearly understood that insurgent movement in Balochistan was fanned and funded just for that purpose. This is in order to block the use of Gwadar port and development of ancillary terrestrial infrastructure in the province to deny an energy corridor to China for its energy needs. Pakistani prime minister’s visit to China, immediately after post-OBL row with the USA, has transmitted troubling signals; the visit and the statements made by leaders of both the countries have caused concerns and worries, both in New Delhi and Washington DC. Both the countries have never expressed their disapproval of Sino-Pak ties so loudly before.

    Pakistan’s disintegration is not a new initiative in the game of reordering the world to keep one power as a sole hegemonic variable. There were different theories making rounds in national security circles. But the recent events, particularly those relating to Pakistan, have confirmed that the USA needs to sort Pakistan out in order to deal with growing Chinese influence and its economic might. There are fears in the informed circles in Washington DC that USA, post OBL operation, can even land its forces to occupy Pakistan. The USA is playing on the nerves of American people using threats to the U.S., including “rogue states,” “failed states,” “autocracies” and “terrorism”, but gives pride of place to the “challenges” posed by “rising and resurgent powers,” of which only China and Russia are named.

    The card being played right now by US establishment and its allied media is to weaken the only institution left intact in Pakistan; its military. The military-bashing campaign is being reinforced by unaware Pakistani media and some of the opportunist politicians who are trying to settle their score with the military establishment for sacking their inefficient and corrupt government.

    The current situation has cleverly been managed to block China from using Gwadar port which is very close to Iran’s Chabahar port built by India for its economic and strategic reasons. Right from the time Chinese started building this port, there were instances of violence in Balochistan and open opposition to this port voiced by Baloch nationalists who, as later proved, were working at the behest of India. According to an article recently published in Information Clearing House, in order for China to sustain its status as the emerging economic superpower, it must take all the necessary steps required in order to have sufficient energy resources for the near future. According to Pakistani think tank, BrassTacks, Chinese interests in the Indian Ocean became visible in 2002, when they invested heavily and began work on the Gwadar Port, located in Balochistan, a province of Pakistan. The Gwadar Port has its benefits for both Pakistan and China. The cost benefits to China of using Gwadar as the port for western China’s imports and exports are as evident as the long-term economic benefits to Pakistan of Gwadar becoming a port for Chinese goods. Not only does Gwadar enable China to fulfill its energy needs, but it will also provide a strategic military footprint in the Arabian Sea, which has the United States worried.

    Due to its geo-strategic location, Pakistan is important both for China and the USA and both are competing to have their respective footprints in Pakistan for their influence in the region. In order to halt this, the report says, the globalists need to block China’s access to the Arabian Sea by way of Gwadar. According to BrassTacks, to do this, “there needs to be a ‘new Pakistan’ as indicated in Operation Enduring Turmoil.” Operation Enduring Turmoil is a plan of Project for New American Century (PNAC) to disassemble Pakistan into three parts. According to a “game plan” drawn out by Lt. Col. Ralph Peters, in a 2006 article of the Armed Forces Journal, “Pakistan’s Northwest Frontier tribes would be reunited with their Afghan brethren [and] would also lose its Baluch territory to Free Baluchistan. The remaining ‘natural’ Pakistan would lie entirely east of the Indus, except for a westward spur near Karachi.” With this done, what was once the NWFP, a province of Pakistan, is now part of Afghanistan, and what was once Baluchistan, a province of Pakistan, is now its own state, Free Baluchistan. This would force China to impossibly go through Afghanistan and Free Baluchistan in order to reach the Arabian Sea. Such an arrangement would cut China’s route to the Arabian Sea.

    In order to make an assessment of the game plan, let us look at the developments from November 2009 onward. China sends out an interesting signal ahead of US president Barack Obama’s scheduled visit to Beijing by offering a set of advanced fighter jets to Pakistan. It has agreed to sell $1.4 billion worth of jets to Islamabad days ahead of the planned visit of the US president Barack Obama to Shanghai and Beijing on November 15-18. The move jolted the US administration as it works on notes and talking points for Obama’s meetings with Chinese leaders because he is expected to discuss Beijing’s relationship with India and its role in internal conflicts in Pakistan and Afghanistan.

    A year later, in October 2010, the following interesting perspective on how things were heating up between the US and Pakistan is published by Margolis:

    The neoconservative far right in Washington and its media allies again claim Pakistan is a grave threat to US interests and to Israel. Pakistan must be declawed and dismembered, insist the neocons. Pakistan’s nuclear arsenal is reportedly being targeted for seizure or elimination by US Special Forces. Many Pakistanis believe the United States is bent on dismembering their nation. Some polls show Pakistanis now regard the United States as a greater enemy than India.

    Now, let’s fast-forward to early April 2011. This year will mark the 60th anniversary of diplomatic relations. Most Pakistanis don’t want closer relations with Washington–they want to build closer relations with Beijing, and work on creating the Muslim Union (similar to the European Union) in Central Asia. Links with Tajikistan, Uzbekistan, Afghanistan, Iran and Turkey are key to the future of Pakistan. Islamabad is moving ever closer to China, both militarily and economically– and that’s a fact Jack. By mid April things start going downhill; very fast. The transactional relationship between Washington and Islamabad is coming to an end. While US-Pakistani transactional relations are fraying at both ends, the opposite is true of Sino-Pakistani relations. Pakistan supported China when she was recognized only by Albania, and built the bridge to the USA. This fact cannot be forgotten by the Chinese who mention it in every summit and mentioned it in this summit also.

    And finally, on April 27, the report says, the following catalyst prompts the Obama team to execute the Kill Osama Bin Laden Script. This is the pivotal point in the Bin Laden Death Operation Script as a catalyst for the soon to come Pakistan Occupation:
    Pakistan is lobbying Afghan President Hamid Karzai against building a long-term strategic partnership with the United States, and urging him instead to look to Pakistan and its ally, China, for help in striking a peace deal with the Taliban and rebuilding the economy, according to Afghan officials.
    Washington’s relations with Pakistan have reached their lowest point in years following a series of missteps on both sides, and Pakistani officials say that they no longer have an incentive to follow the American lead in their own backyard, the report added.
    “Pakistan is sole guarantor of its own interest,” said a senior Pakistani official, adding: “We’re not looking for anyone else to protect us, especially the US. If they’re leaving, they’re leaving and they should go.”
    Export-Import Bank of China decides to loan Pakistan $1.7 billion to develop a city-wide train system in the eastern city of Lahore.
    Since the holes-filled and never-explained ‘kill or capture’ operation, the presidential PR machine, the US media and their extension guised under ‘alternative’ have been beating the war drums. After all, as with any wars of ours, public opinion must be shaped, and public backing must be garnered. This is one of the latest reflecting just that:

    After the killing of Osama bin Laden in Pakistan, few American voters believe that country is an ally of the United States in the war against terrorism. Moreover, most doubt Pakistan is worthy of continued U.S. foreign aid. That’s according to a Fox News poll released Wednesday. Nearly three out of four voters — 73 percent — say the United States should stop sending foreign aid until Pakistan demonstrates a deeper commitment to the war against terrorism. Some 19 percent would continue to provide funding. With the discovery that bin Laden apparently had been living in Pakistan for years, the consensus is Pakistan is not a friend (74 percent). A small 16 percent minority of voters views Pakistan as a strong U.S. ally in the war against terrorism.

    You must be thinking: Pakistan must have tons in their own dossier to expose US government duplicities, lies, and nefarious activities. So why have they been relatively silent in all this? Why don’t they open the flood gate on ‘facts’ surrounding Bin Laden, his supposed role in 9/11, his supposed journey since 9/11, and his supposed death recently? The report says that: neither party has played all their cards yet. Just take a look at how Gates has been playing both sides carefully while measuring the outcome of various factors in play:

    Gates reiterated the accusation that elements within the Pakistani government knew about the location of Osama bin Laden and were keeping that information from the United States. Bin Laden was killed in a US raid earlier this month. At the same time, Gates echoed comments by other officials, conceding that the US has absolutely no evidence to that effect and that it is “pure supposition on our part.” The repeated accusations, despite being based on “pure supposition” have done major damage to US-Pakistan ties, and have spawned calls from Congress to suspend all aid to Pakistan to punish them.

    Gates, who attended the conference with Joint Chiefs of Staff Chairman Admiral Michael Mullen, also said that the US raid that killed bin Laden had “humiliated” the Pakistani government, and that they had “paid a price” for bin Laden’s presence. Mullen added that the US ability to attack Pakistan with impunity was “a humbling experience” for the Pakistani military.

    The White House neocons are in the midst of age-old diplomatic games, bluffing, and hedging their bets. They have the ‘foreign & military aid’ card. They have the ‘ISI dirt files’ card. They have the ‘ultimate China leaning’ card. And of course, they have the ‘mighty power of preemptive occupation war’ card which is always blessed and supported by NATO and overlooked by their butlers in the UN. China has its own set of cards; whether it is their biggest market for dumping goods, or carrying the US debt, or who knows what else. For now they are using the ‘talk’ card with no real strings attached.

    As for the people of the world, they’ll be sitting and waiting for the three parties to conclude this stage of their global hegemony game. They’ll be reading and watching and listening to their PR machine in the media give us one concocted fantasy after another. As in all other wars of these people will have zero to say, zilch to gain, and plenty to lose.
    http://pksecurity.blogspot.com/2011/...adar-port.html
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    Administrator Aryan_B's Avatar
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    Wish our Pakistani media were not intellectually bankrupt. Those that in other countries are known as traitors but in Pakistan go by the name liberals

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    Senior Moderator Superkaif's Avatar
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    Pksecurity - a well written article and indeed an eye opener for all. Thank you for educating us on the subject. We appreciate it.
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    Not only US, India. I realize it is also threat to UAE, Oman, other Gulf.

    Appreciate alot of deep written by PKsecurity.

    Moreover, US should interfere on China's internal matter, Pakistan has enough troubles in many issues. Why US can't interfere on Xianjing instead Balouchistan?

    I am certain sure, US has plan to divide India in 35 states after Pakistan and limit the influence of China power.
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    Last edited by RaptorRX; 30th July 2012 at 01:44.

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    Member Yusuf's Avatar
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    Quoting BrassTacks eh? Zahid Hamid Lol!! Reading the story, I felt like Zaid Hamid was talking.

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    Senior Member Neo's Avatar
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    Excellent read Pksecurity, I fully agree with your views. What I don't understand is why our political establishment is reluctant to expose duplicity of US Foreign Department and play the same blame game as Washington is playing with us. Cold War is over and we have nothing to gain from USA which is looking to India to counter China. As a good neighbor and time tested friend, we should help China to counter this new alliance and invite her to open naval base in Gwadar. What are we waiting for??
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    Member Yusuf's Avatar
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    China will prove to be worse than the US for you. You are still presenting yourselves as toilet paper, only the hands are changing. Chinese are known to be brutal. The US was far more magnanimous to you guys.

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    Senior Member Neo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yusuf View Post
    China will prove to be worse than the US for you. You are still presenting yourselves as toilet paper, only the hands are changing. Chinese are known to be brutal. The US was far more magnanimous to you guys.
    Pot calling cattle black, lol! Mate, India is a doormat today and will end up as toilet paper once US' goals are achieved or lose importance. Remember, their is no permanent alliance or friendship and we know USA better than you do.

    China may be brutal, she's a better record on imposing wars or interfering with domestic issues of other countries. She's basically a trading nation looking for security for her growing interests. She has nothing to gain with breaking up Pakistan into pieces like US Neocons want. Au contraire...she needs us to be a strong ally to counter Indo-US alliance and dominance in the Gulf region. If China is using us, so are we....we have common interest in this matter.
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    Retired AgNoStIc MuSliM's Avatar
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    Gwadar port can pose a threat to the economic and military interests of several nations in the region, but not unless the development of the port and related infrastructure, especially high traffic transport links to the North West and East, is increased significantly beyond the current levels.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neo View Post
    Pot calling cattle black, lol! Mate, India is a doormat today and will end up as toilet paper once US' goals are achieved or lose importance. Remember, their is no permanent alliance or friendship and we know USA better than you do.

    China may be brutal, she's a better record on imposing wars or interfering with domestic issues of other countries. She's basically a trading nation looking for security for her growing interests. She has nothing to gain with breaking up Pakistan into pieces like US Neocons want. Au contraire...she needs us to be a strong ally to counter Indo-US alliance and dominance in the Gulf region. If China is using us, so are we....we have common interest in this matter.
    What China is, is evident from what she is doing in South China Sea.

    India is a doormat or toilet paper? Time will tell. But you accept the fact that China needs you so it's using you.

    Americans are calling for partnership with India. China is not. I mean China is yet to even open it's pockets with free funds like the US did.

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    Senior Moderator Superkaif's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yusuf View Post
    .

    Americans are calling for partnership with India. China is not. I mean China is yet to even open it's pockets with free funds like the US did.
    and look where the "free funds" from the US have got us? The definition of aid and the usage of the word is inaccurate. Only i believe 5 to 10% of the funds given to us reaches the intended target. Most of it is pocketed by the leaders etc. The Americans are handing money not to aid Pakistan but to "blackmail" Pakistan and in particular its leaders to achieve their strategy in our region.
    I would rather they didnt give our nation handouts - in the 1990s when this "aid" was stopped and sanctions were imposed our economy and country actually grew!!
    I would much rather achieve China and our goals together. I trust them and their strategy more than the shining Americans!
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    Member Batman's Avatar
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    The functioning of Gwadar itself seems difficut and here we have people day dreaming about the utility of Gwadar port

    Gwadar Port continues to depend on govt cargo - thenews.com.pk

    KARACHI: The Gwadar Port, which was envisioned to become a transshipment hub for the landlocked Central Asian States (CAS), Afghanistan and Western China, continues to depend on government cargo.

    The government in last three years paid an extra amount of Rs10.21 billion just to import fertiliser and wheat from this port. In the last three years, 101 vessels arrived at the port. Its future remains bleak in the absence of any serious efforts to make the port fully functional.

    http://www.thenews.com.pk/Todays-New...-on-govt-cargo


    TCP continues to bear huge financial losses

    KARACHI - The Trading Corporation of Pakistan (TCP) continues to bear huge financial losses in terms of transportation of wheat and urea from Gwadar Port.

    The Nation has learnt that TCP is still busy using Gwadar Port for the chanellization of bulk cargo of urea and wheat against the set limit of 2.5 million under the Prime Ministers directive.

    PMs directive No 2206 dated 14th July, 2008 stated that 1/3rd of the entire imports of 2.5m MT must be chanellized through Gwadar Port, but the total cargo, urea and wheat both, TCP chanellized though Gwadar is 2.368m MT. Moreover, due to unavailability of Hinterland connectivity the federal government has so far paid a subsidy to the tune of Rs 5.21b for transportation of the said cargo from Gwadar Port to other parts of the country at the rate of Rs 2200 per metric ton.

    Such huge losses that are being borne both by government and TCP just to make the Gwadar Port operational have turned into permanent suffering for the masses who have to buy wheat and urea on unbearable rates, the experts said.

    It has also been learnt that the TCP has to pay Rs 110,000 as extra cost on the off setting of every 50 thousand Metric Ton bulk cargo at Gwadar Port, while it has so far given more than Rs 5 billion since March 2008 in this regard.

    http://www.nation.com.pk/pakistan-ne...nancial-losses

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    Member Pickwickian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Batman View Post
    The functioning of Gwadar itself seems difficut and here we have people day dreaming about the utility of Gwadar port
    First Article:
    Why didn't you quote this bit of the article?
    He said he is lobbying for a permanent solution for the Gwadar Port issues and the Prime Minster has announced Rs6 billion for the construction of roads to link Gwadar with the rest of the country. In January, the National Highway Authority (NHA) will start its work.

    He emphasised that most of the connectivity roads are 30 to 40 percent completed so the government should focus on them. Once the port is connected according to the master plan, investment and business will be attracted, he said confidently.

    Connectivity through roads from the Port to Karachi (the Makran Coastal Highways), to Punjab through Turbat, Khoshab, Awaran, Khuzdar, Ratodero and to Quetta through Turbat, Panjgur, and Surab requires Rs45 billion. But the government has so far provided Rs10.21 billion extra cost to import fertiliser and wheat from Gwadar. Had this amount been given for the construction of the roads, it would have helped to resolve the connectivity issue to some extent, said the senator. This would help in resolving the problems of people of Balochistan to a great extent, he added.


    Second Article:
    Nice, because news from January 2010 is really relevant right now.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zarvin View Post
    First Article:
    Why didn't you quote this bit of the article?




    Second Article:
    Nice, because news from January 2010 is really relevant right now.
    I quoted what was relevant. Everything else is "that will be done", "this could have been done" and so on so forth. We shall talk about it when it transpires.

    The point that it is accepted that Gwadar is a failure so far. Now it will be failure forever or not will depend on the actions of Pakistan government.

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    Senior Moderator Superkaif's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Batman View Post
    I quoted what was relevant. Everything else is "that will be done", "this could have been done" and so on so forth. We shall talk about it when it transpires.

    The point that it is accepted that Gwadar is a failure so far. Now it will be failure forever or not will depend on the actions of Pakistan government.
    Come coME batman sahib - if you are going to quote from an article regarding current events note 2 things. First thing is dont be selective and pick out what YOU see as relevant.Post the whole article and allow the readers to judge what they feel is relevant. Secondly in 2 and half years the world has changed grossly and news this hold is with respect well past its sell by date. Thanks...
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    Quote Originally Posted by Superkaif View Post
    Come coME batman sahib - if you are going to quote from an article regarding current events note 2 things. First thing is dont be selective and pick out what YOU see as relevant.Post the whole article and allow the readers to judge what they feel is relevant. Secondly in 2 and half years the world has changed grossly and news this hold is with respect well past its sell by date. Thanks...
    How can one post whole article, you don't have respect for copyrights??. A link is given for the same reason that you can go to that linked page and read the whole article. I highlighted the points to make my point. If you want to make a point please quote the portion from that article and do it.

    Please tell me what is the progress after 2 and half years?. Pretty much still at the stame stage as it was 2 and half years ago if one goes by news articles.

    This is a article from 1 year ago (May 2011)

    The task force had observed that the PSA had undertaken to spend $525 million in five years, but nothing was spent during the last three years. No commercial vessel had arrived at Gwadar port during the same period.

    http://tribune.com.pk/story/173436/p...ase-in-gwadar/
    Was there any improvement up on this?. Have commercial vessels started moving in and out of Gwadar?. If it is so, then I will stand corrected. Thanks.

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    Administrator Aryan_B's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yusuf View Post
    China will prove to be worse than the US for you. You are still presenting yourselves as toilet paper, only the hands are changing. Chinese are known to be brutal. The US was far more magnanimous to you guys.
    Bit excitable and ff topic Yusuf. As usual off topic speculation??

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    Administrator Aryan_B's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yusuf View Post
    What China is, is evident from what she is doing in South China Sea.

    India is a doormat or toilet paper? Time will tell. But you accept the fact that China needs you so it's using you.

    Americans are calling for partnership with India. China is not. I mean China is yet to even open it's pockets with free funds like the US did.
    Yusuf calm down. Every country does what is in it's self interest when it comes to geo political and strategic relations

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    Administrator Aryan_B's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Batman View Post
    I quoted what was relevant.
    Of course what you thought was relevant to support your assertions. It is common here and elsewhere to put the full article up with a link

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neo View Post
    Excellent read Pksecurity, I fully agree with your views. What I don't understand is why our political establishment is reluctant to expose duplicity of US Foreign Department and play the same blame game as Washington is playing with us. Cold War is over and we have nothing to gain from USA which is looking to India to counter China. As a good neighbor and time tested friend, we should help China to counter this new alliance and invite her to open naval base in Gwadar. What are we waiting for??
    Not interested it seems according to article by Asian Times

    China drops the Gwadar hot potato

    According to APP, Mukhtar said Pakistan appreciated that the Chinese government agrees to run the port, but would be more grateful “if a naval base is constructed at the site of Gwadar for Pakistan.” [1]

    His remarks set off alarm bells around the world, as pundits dusted off the “string of pearls” analogy describing China’s alleged efforts to create a network of military-ready ports, and raised the specter of the Chinese dragon bathing his vermilion claws in the milk-warm waters of the Indian Ocean.

    China promptly issued a denial – about building the naval base, at least – that made the whole episode look like another spasm of incompetence by President Asif Ali Zardari’s administration. [2]

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