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Thread: Use of Web Based Discussion Forums by Indian RAW/IB or American CIA

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  1. #21
    Member John Mcclane's Avatar
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    Re: Use of Web Based Discussion Forums by Indian RAW/IB or American CIA

    Quote Originally Posted by Ticker View Post
    It is private discussion forum for invitees only - you are too curious for this one.
    We all are. Going through various threads and then this one it may seem to a casual observer you have a personal axe to grind. So proper citation of your sources are needed or else it could just be all made up.

  2. #22
    Senior Member Dash's Avatar
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    Re: Use of Web Based Discussion Forums by Indian RAW/IB or American CIA

    Quote Originally Posted by john mcclane View Post
    we all are. Going through various threads and then this one it may seem to a casual observer you have a personal axe to grind. So proper citation of your sources are needed or else it could just be all made up.
    ok.....

  3. #23
    Member John Mcclane's Avatar
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    Re: Use of Web Based Discussion Forums by Indian RAW/IB or American CIA

    Quote Originally Posted by Superkaif View Post
    An eye opener indeed. The owners of PDF have no integrity and loyalty to Pakistan. We in fact gave them about $1700 as a"charitable donation" which we realized was taken off us under false pretences.
    It fits the bill. The site is certainly not Pakistani orientated and reeks of 3rd party involvement. A kind of selling their souls to the devil i guess.
    CIA works on your donation?

    What were these false pretenses?

  4. #24
    Administrator Aryan_B's Avatar
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    Re: Use of Web Based Discussion Forums by Indian RAW/IB or American CIA

    Quote Originally Posted by John Mcclane View Post

    What were these false pretenses?
    That they were making a loss and needed donations zakat

  5. #25
    Member John Mcclane's Avatar
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    Re: Use of Web Based Discussion Forums by Indian RAW/IB or American CIA

    Quote Originally Posted by Aryan_B View Post
    That they were making a loss and needed donations zakat
    Donations and Zakat are two different things.

    Zakat has to be offered and accepted as Zakat. Was any Zakat fund officially declared by these CIA operatives?

    Loss or gain = Revenue minus Expense.

    If their revenue is less than their expense then indeed this was a loss.

  6. #26
    Administrator Aryan_B's Avatar
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    Re: Use of Web Based Discussion Forums by Indian RAW/IB or American CIA

    Quote Originally Posted by John Mcclane View Post
    Donations and Zakat are two different things.

    Zakat has to be offered and accepted as Zakat. Was any Zakat fund officially declared by these CIA operatives?

    Loss or gain = Revenue minus Expense.

    If their revenue is less than their expense then indeed this was a loss.
    first of all you are correct in that loose language should not be used. In my case and many others donations were asked for which accountability was refused by the recipients. To date no account has been provided. I when I gave the money thought of it as my patriotic duty to help out because it was suggested to me that it was for good works and promotion of Pakistan and you are correct that the word zakat is and or may not be applicable.

    The recipients of these donations are on record in a national newspaper stating the costs of their enterprise. There are also professional companies which are able to provide relatively accurate estimates of income generated from adsense for any given or particular site. Simply it is not difficult if you have the knowledge to calculate the loss or profit. I would assert they are making profits. I now know this after extensive investigations carried out by me. I did not know this when I paid moneys over by debit card for which there are records. Others I am aware were making cash payments.

    I mentioned this to an American forum member and he has advised me to collate all the information I have and take it to the IRS and the American authorities as both he and I belive that there are rules about raising money in America which have not been followed. In particular an account of donations is not an unreasonable request. In fact I would say in almost all jurisdiction there is rules about accountability for recipients to doners.

    Not only this but I have irrefutable evidence that those concerned are involved in cyber crimes and I am at the moment in the process of collating and handing over the evidence to the relative authorities in the relevant jurisdictions.

    Once I have given this information to the enforcement agencies I will seek advise from them if I am able to publish and disseminate that information to third parties. I will come back here and certainly let people know what the result is of my endeavours.

    Lastly I have noticed a certain edge in your posts. At times if we choose not to address your smug comments it is because of time constraints and not because we cant as we do have a life outside the forum. please be patient you will get fitting responses at least on this forum late if not quickly.

    In your comments about the CIA I have no evidence one way or another in this case if they are involved but lets not forget there is evidence that they have been involved in illegal activities in the past and above their laws one example was the Iran–Contra affair. So it would not be impossible for what is being suggested
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  7. #27
    Member John Mcclane's Avatar
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    Re: Use of Web Based Discussion Forums by Indian RAW/IB or American CIA

    Quote Originally Posted by Aryan_B View Post
    first of all you are correct in that loose language should not be used. In my case and many others donations were asked for which accountability was refused by the recipients. To date no account has been provided. I when I gave the money thought of it as my patriotic duty to help out because it was suggested to me that it was for good works and promotion of Pakistan and you are correct that the word zakat is and or may not be applicable.

    The recipients of these donations are on record in a national newspaper stating the costs of their enterprise. There are also professional companies which are able to provide relatively accurate estimates of income generated from adsense for any given or particular site. Simply it is not difficult if you have the knowledge to calculate the loss or profit. I would assert they are making profits. I now know this after extensive investigations carried out by me. I did not know this when I paid moneys over by debit card for which there are records. Others I am aware were making cash payments.

    I mentioned this to an American forum member and he has advised me to collate all the information I have and take it to the IRS and the American authorities as both he and I belive that there are rules about raising money in America which have not been followed. In particular an account of donations is not an unreasonable request. In fact I would say in almost all jurisdiction there is rules about accountability for recipients to doners.
    Can you point to what exactly was asked of you that stated your money would be used for "good works and promotion of Pakistan". Unless you were told specifically like a "tube-well would be laid down on Chak 77", or something of that sort, I don't see you making a good case.

    You allow free membership to this site but incur some expenses to keep it running. If you ask me for a voluntary donation to spread that cost or some of that cost can I really blame you? It is a reasonable request.

    Not only this but I have irrefutable evidence that those concerned are involved in cyber crimes and I am at the moment in the process of collating and handing over the evidence to the relative authorities in the relevant jurisdictions.
    Again then the accusation of CIA operative seems more and more unjustifiable you can accuse them of these crimes. But as I asked Ticker we need to see links and evidence of those crimes too.

    Once I have given this information to the enforcement agencies I will seek advise from them if I am able to publish and disseminate that information to third parties. I will come back here and certainly let people know what the result is of my endeavours.
    Usually when people are doing things what your are doing they don't mention even this much. You might have alerted them.

    Lastly I have noticed a certain edge in your posts. At times if we choose not to address your smug comments it is because of time constraints and not because we cant as we do have a life outside the forum. please be patient you will get fitting responses at least on this forum late if not quickly.

    In your comments about the CIA I have no evidence one way or another in this case if they are involved but lets not forget there is evidence that they have been involved in illegal activities in the past and above their laws one example was the Iran–Contra affair. So it would not be impossible for what is being suggested
    I noticed you noticed when my comments started disappearing as moderated or something. Especially those that were made against PA performance. I'm not trying to be blunt, but I'm trying to be straight forward. Where I see disparity I will ask questions or give straight answers. I am mostly concerned with you guys following the same formula of our media "International hand was involved in activities against us".

    It seems self-serving on your part to promote this point of view just as much as it is for our agencies to point to CIA for obviously homemade problems. You admitted to "loose language". I picked on that as it was like using religion to further your argument also a favorite of Pakistanis.

    My suggestion is that you have a decent site going on. Don't [email protected]#@#$ it up.
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  8. #28
    Senior Member Express's Avatar
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    Re: Use of Web Based Discussion Forums by Indian RAW/IB or American CIA

    Learn from others mistakes and we will make this site better and stronger
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  9. #29
    Administrator Aryan_B's Avatar
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    Re: Use of Web Based Discussion Forums by Indian RAW/IB or American CIA

    Quote Originally Posted by John Mcclane View Post
    Again then the accusation of CIA operative seems more and more unjustifiable you can accuse them of these crimes. But as I asked Ticker we need to see links and evidence of those crimes too.
    .
    There is some evidence on this thread:

    http://www.pakistanaffairs.pk/announ...ums-sites.html

  10. #30
    Senior Member Dash's Avatar
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    Re: Use of Web Based Discussion Forums by Indian RAW/IB or American CIA

    [MENTION=2063]John Mcclane[/MENTION]

    This is a discussion forum where opinions are expressed. And it is not always that the operations of intelligence agencies get referenced links posted all over. And even if I paste a reference to such an activity, guys like you would take no time to trash the link as crap or inconsequential. I have though never understood the neutrality of any reference or link or how to gauge such neutrality.

    I said what I said and stand by what I said. Discussions with informed people are also worth the while but can not be linked and referenced.

    And analyses which could be independent and logical do not need references or links. You may not agree with it - it is your wish.

    It is not we who are under scrutiny here - it is you who are, particularly when you emerge out of the blue and tend to deliberately target some key posters by challenging their views, at times outlandishly. I wonder what is your agenda to do that and what or who is behind your faceless mask. I wonder who you actually is/are behind another outlandish nick, so uncommon in Pakistan.

  11. #31
    Member Rashid's Avatar
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    Re: Use of Web Based Discussion Forums by Indian RAW/IB or American CIA

    So Xeric who is an Artillary officer and a Kargil War Veteran is infact a CIA asset and Taimi Khan is a Raw asset. Great going [MENTION=978]Ticker[/MENTION]

  12. #32
    Senior Member Dash's Avatar
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    Re: Use of Web Based Discussion Forums by Indian RAW/IB or American CIA

    Quote Originally Posted by Rashid View Post
    So Xeric who is an Artillary officer and a Kargil War Veteran is infact a CIA asset and Taimi Khan is a Raw asset. Great going [MENTION=978]Ticker[/MENTION]
    Mr. Rashid, I don't know who Xeric is and who Taimi Khan is. And you don't know what my identity may be. Neither am I aware as to who you actually may be. This is immaterial. I wonder if you know how funds are distributed by the intelligence agencies. Both Xeric or Taimi Khan may not even be in the picture as to how things may be moved behind the scenes in environs which may be hidden from them.

    There is a difference between an informed analysis and some artillery officer's opinion about a skirmish fought in a sector, where he may have been posted with his battery some 10 km behind the front line. His opinion may even differ from that of an infantarian fighting up front or a person incharge of logistics supply.

    I don't undermine the experience or bravery of those who fought with the enemy. However at the same time, do not underestimate the ability of others, whom you may think are blind to the realities as they exist.

  13. #33
    Senior Member sami's Avatar
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    Re: Use of Web Based Discussion Forums by Indian RAW/IB or American CIA

    Quote Originally Posted by Rashid View Post
    So Xeric who is an Artillary officer and a Kargil War Veteran is infact a CIA asset and Taimi Khan is a Raw asset. Great going [MENTION=978]Ticker[/MENTION]

    So does that make them infallible? With respect to those two gentlemen the admins here have provided evidence of wrongdoing along with illegal activities carried out by Asim/ahsan:
    http://www.pakistanaffairs.pk/announ...ums-sites.html

    If Xeric & Taimi still choose to stay there and post occasionally its a matter for them.

    you forgot to mention Last Hope who has claimed to work for ISPR and be Kayanis nephew when in reality he is a 17 year old kid
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  14. #34
    Senior Member Felix's Avatar
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    Re: Use of Web Based Discussion Forums by Indian RAW/IB or American CIA

    Quote Originally Posted by Rashid View Post
    So Xeric who is an Artillary officer and a Kargil War Veteran is infact a CIA asset and Taimi Khan is a Raw asset. Great going [MENTION=978]Ticker[/MENTION]

    With respect nobody has mentioned individuals and no one would disrespect anyone on this forum.

  15. #35
    Banned RaptorRX's Avatar
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    Re: Use of Web Based Discussion Forums by Indian RAW/IB or American CIA

    Quote Originally Posted by Rashid View Post
    So Xeric who is an Artillary officer and a Kargil War Veteran is infact a CIA asset and Taimi Khan is a Raw asset. Great going [MENTION=978]Ticker[/MENTION]
    Yaar, don't give wrong impression, TaimiKhan is fighting against Indian trolling numerous times, and banned them. He is good guy for what he stand for. I was newbie at that moment.

  16. #36
    Member John Mcclane's Avatar
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    Re: Use of Web Based Discussion Forums by Indian RAW/IB or American CIA

    Quote Originally Posted by sami View Post
    So does that make them infallible? With respect to those two gentlemen the admins here have provided evidence of wrongdoing along with illegal activities carried out by Asim/ahsan:
    http://www.pakistanaffairs.pk/announ...ums-sites.html

    If Xeric & Taimi still choose to stay there and post occasionally its a matter for them.

    you forgot to mention Last Hope who has claimed to work for ISPR and be Kayanis nephew when in reality he is a 17 year old kid
    The 'evidence' just seems like both sides are bitching about each other.

  17. #37
    Senior Member Express's Avatar
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    Re: Use of Web Based Discussion Forums by Indian RAW/IB or American CIA

    Quote Originally Posted by John Mcclane View Post
    The 'evidence' just seems like both sides are bitching about each other.
    But only one side has evidence black and white of the other forum involved with improper behaviour. If you read the thread discussed you will see their attempt to initiate attacks on this forum. You have a right to an opinion but when PDF ask for donations as a charitable donation and then are making $6000 to $8000 per month --- you decide sir who is doing the bitching.

  18. #38
    Member John Mcclane's Avatar
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    Re: Use of Web Based Discussion Forums by Indian RAW/IB or American CIA

    Quote Originally Posted by Ticker View Post
    [MENTION=2063]John Mcclane[/MENTION]

    This is a discussion forum where opinions are expressed. And it is not always that the operations of intelligence agencies get referenced links posted all over. And even if I paste a reference to such an activity, guys like you would take no time to trash the link as crap or inconsequential. I have though never understood the neutrality of any reference or link or how to gauge such neutrality.

    I said what I said and stand by what I said. Discussions with informed people are also worth the while but can not be linked and referenced.

    And analyses which could be independent and logical do not need references or links. You may not agree with it - it is your wish.

    It is not we who are under scrutiny here - it is you who are, particularly when you emerge out of the blue and tend to deliberately target some key posters by challenging their views, at times outlandishly. I wonder what is your agenda to do that and what or who is behind your faceless mask. I wonder who you actually is/are behind another outlandish nick, so uncommon in Pakistan.
    Actually as a new comer I saw several threads with [MENTION=978]Ticker[/MENTION]. For a curious person like me, that did put me somewhat on your case. But the interaction on this disappointed me as you were no fun.

    What gets to me is the typically Pakistani approach. Point to international hands, use religious buzz words. I don't think spies have anything to gain from all you forum people. How outlandish is that!

  19. #39
    Member John Mcclane's Avatar
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    Re: Use of Web Based Discussion Forums by Indian RAW/IB or American CIA

    Quote Originally Posted by Express View Post
    But only one side has evidence black and white of the other forum involved with improper behaviour. If you read the thread discussed you will see their attempt to initiate attacks on this forum. You have a right to an opinion but when PDF ask for donations as a charitable donation and then are making $6000 to $8000 per month --- you decide sir who is doing the bitching.
    So don't give them money!

    But 6000 to 8000 dollars? US dollars? I have to open a forum. I will open a forum about forums. Invite you all to have a go at each other.
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  20. #40
    Senior Member Dash's Avatar
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    Re: Use of Web Based Discussion Forums by Indian RAW/IB or American CIA

    Quote Originally Posted by John Mcclane View Post
    Actually as a new comer I saw several threads with [MENTION=978]Ticker[/MENTION]. For a curious person like me, that did put me somewhat on your case. But the interaction on this disappointed me as you were no fun.

    What gets to me is the typically Pakistani approach. Point to international hands, use religious buzz words. I don't think spies have anything to gain from all you forum people. How outlandish is that!
    I am sorry I could not offer the kind of fun you were looking for.

    And I am sorry your ambivalence to the ways of intelligence agencies dealing with internal and external threat environment precludes discussion beyond outlandish demarches.

    I am sure there are some other new members who would be more fun loving.
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