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    Senior Moderator Superkaif's Avatar
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    Pakistan - India relations

    NEW DELHI: India and Pakistan’s foreign secretaries were meeting on Wednesday to bolster the peace dialogue between the two South Asian countries.

    The round of peace talks between Pakistan’s Foreign Secretary Jalil Abbas Jilani and his Indian counterpart Ranjan Mathai in New Delhi comes after the recent arrest of a key suspect in the Mumbai terror attacks.

    Wednesday’s talks are being held 10 days after the arrested suspect reportedly told Indian investigators that Pakistani intelligence officials were present in a Karachi control room while he and others directed attackers on the ground in Mumbai.

    Last month, India and Pakistan held inconclusive talks on resolving long-standing disputes over the Siachen glacier in the Himalayas and the maritime boundary of Sir Creek.

    The latest meeting is expected to prepare the agenda for talks between the foreign ministers of the two countries next month.

    The talks would focus on peace and security, including the threat posed by terrorism, the decades-old dispute over the Himalayan region of Kashmir and confidence-building measures to push closer ties.

    Jilani told reporters that he had been ”mandated by the Pakistani leadership to move the peace process forward.”

    However, Indian officials are likely to press Islamabad over crackdown on terror camps operated by militant groups allegedly located in Pakistan.

    Ties between the two countries were fractured by the 2008 Mumbai attacks in which 10 terrorists killed 166 people in a three-day siege.

    http://dawn.com/2012/07/04/india-pak...es-hold-talks/

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    Pakistan, India can make rapid progress by partnership

    Pakistan, India can make rapid progress by partnership

    By: Our Staff Reporter | September 21, 2012

    LAHORE – The speakers at a seminar have urged the politicians, civil society and business executives to step forward and forget the past mistakes, as both India and Pakistan can make rapid progress only through partnership.

    The Indo-Pak summit was organised by the Nutshell Forum in city with a view to transforming both countries economies through knowledge cooperation.

    The conference was attended by 80 management experts from India while over 400 CEOs of the different Pakistani firms and companies also participated in it.
    The summit featured intensive debates, presentations, keynote addresses, panel discussions and interactive sessions.

    On the first day of seminar, besides others, the keynote speakers included Tata Communications Chairman Subodh Bhargava and Packages Limited adviser Syed Babar Ali.
    Federal minister for finance Hafeez Sheikh and State Bank of Pakistan Governor Yaseen Anwar will also address the second day of the summit on Friday.

    The speakers said that the objective of the summit included, knowledge sharing for sustainable development; promotions of bilateral relations between India and Pakistan; bringing gap between intelligentsia of two countries; sharing regional best practices and case studies; promotion of peace and harmony in South Asia and collaboration between professional associations and societies of India and Pakistan.

    Pakistan, India can make rapid progress by partnership | The Nation

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    Pakistan - India relations

    http://tribune.com.pk/story/495806/p...a-relations-5/

    When I received the Mother Teresa award, this year, for working towards improvement of relations between India and Pakistan, I was happy to believe that there must have been some tangible evidence of it to get me the recognition.

    Then comes one Rehman Malik, interior minister of Pakistan, and nearly severs everything. He did everything possible to spoil relations through his statements and remarks. He stayed in the capital for only three days last month but reignited the fires of suspicion, bias and hatred.

    First, he compared the demolition of Babri Masjid with the terrorist attacks on Mumbai to suggest that the demolition was the job of Hindus and the 26/11 attacks of Muslims, thereby renewing the memory of the holocaust during Partition and reiterating the two-nation theory, which even the founder of Pakistan, Mohammad Ali Jinnah, abandoned after independence. Then, Malik brushed aside the agony of Captain Saurabh Kalia’s father, who received his son’s mutilated body 20 days after the Kargil war. The Pakistan Army has denied the inhuman act but it could have at least held an inquiry to allay India’s doubts on Kalia’s case.

    Malik, when pressed, said that his ministry would probe but I doubt if he can dare do anything against the army’s wishes. In any case, no one has taken his visit seriously. The anger was so deep that India did not agree to a joint press conference or even a joint statement.

    Malik’s disastrous visit eclipsed the welcome gesture that the Supreme Court of India had made. It had freed Dr Khalil Chisti, a Pakistani doctor, who was mistakenly implicated in a murder case when he had travelled to India in 1992 to see his ailing mother, who died while he was there. In contrast, the government, given the facts, was rigid and too legalistic. Some human rights activists put before the government the negligible role, if any, played by Chisti.

    Initially, the Rajasthan government saw that Chisti was not to be blamed and recommended Governor Shivraj Patil to pardon him. Patil was adamant and rejected the state’s proposal. Mahesh Bhatt, a famous filmmaker, and I, met Patil at Chandigarh and pleaded Chisti’s case, stating that he was 80 years old and suffering from a heart condition. But this did not appeal to the governor who argued that Chisti had been on bail and must spend some time in jail to serve the purpose of justice.

    The Pakistan media does not take up the case of excesses committed against minorities as forcefully as the Indian media does. It was because of the media that the Bharatiya Janata Party leaders could not hide their faces when the Babri Masjid was demolished.

    I can see a change in the attitude of Indians and Pakistanis towards each other. They never harboured hostility despite the sterile attitude of the two governments. Now, they make bold comments and feel repentant on the massacre of millions during Partition. The public in both countries must force their governments to cut the military expenditure. Better relations would force a cut in military budgets on both sides. New Delhi should take the initiative.

    Published in The Express Tribune, January 19th, 2013.
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    Senior Member Felix's Avatar
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    Without doubt the common man on the street wants peace and better relations

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    Pakistan desires best relations with India: Shahbaz

    LAHORE: Punjab Chief Minister Shahbaz Sharif Wednesday said that Pakistan Muslim League-Nawaz (PML-N) government led by Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif desires the best relationship with the neighbouring countries including India.

    He was speaking to the member of upper house of Indian parliament, Rajiya Sabha and former chief election commissioner, Dr Monohar Singh Gill who called on him here.

    Matters of mutual interest and bilateral relations between India and Pakistan were discussed in the meeting.

    Shahbaz said that relations between India and Pakistan have improved substantially during the recent years, however, he added that there is a need to promote trade and economic ties between the two countries.

    He said that wars have given nothing but poverty, hunger and devastation to people of India and Pakistan and time has come to forget the bitterness of the past and take solid measures for the betterment of the people of the two countries.

    The chief minister said that India and Pakistan should resolve all their disputes including Kashmir issue through meaningful dialogue. He said that PML-N government believes in strengthening of democracy as well as democratic institutions and decisions on national issues are being taken after taking all parties into confidence.

    Speaking on the occasion, Dr Monohar Singh Gill said that he is very happy to visit Pakistan especially Lahore and has seen a pleasant change in the provincial metropolis.

    He said that there is no doubt that Punjab CM Shahbaz Sharif has executed splendid development projects in the province.

    http://www.dawn.com/news/1095810/pak...-india-shahbaz

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    Pakistan, India have revived ‘back-channel’ talks, says Jilani

    WASHINGTON - Pakistan and India have revived ‘back channel’ diplomacy to deal with issues, including terrorism, following last month’s meeting between prime ministers of the two countries, Pakistani Ambassador to the United States Jalil Abbas Jilani said Tuesday.

    Speaking at an event organised by a leading American think-tank, Jilani said there was a growing realisation in Pakistan on the need to improve ties with India, especially in trade and economic field. Following the meeting Prime Minister Muhammad Nawaz Sharif had with his Indian counterpart Narendra Modi in New Delhi on May 26, Jilani said ‘back channel’ talks have been revived to address issues, including terrorism, to improve relations. “There have been proposals to develop a serious mechanism on terrorism,” he said, adding that Pakistan has proposed that this should be at the level of National Security Advisor (NSA) so that the two countries are able to take note of all the developments related to terrorism.

    Without divulging details on the back channel talks, Jilani, however, said that NSA-level collaboration was proposed first by Sharif when he met former Indian prime minister Manmohan Singh in New York last September. “The impression that we had it was taken positively by the Indian side. It still remains on the table. When the dialogue process starts we will revisit the same proposal,” Jilani, who was the foreign secretary at that time, said in response to a question at the event organised by the Washington-based think-tank Carnegie Endowment for International Peace.

    Responding to a question on Pakistan granting most-favoured nation status to India, he said there is a consensus in Pakistan to grant this status to India. “It is a matter of any day. There are no issues at all in granting India MFN status. We should be extending it anytime in the near future,” Jilani said. Addressing the gathering, he said Pakistan desires to pursue an uninterrupted peace process with India that addresses causes of outstanding disputes and “not just symptoms” for achievement of durable peace in South Asia.

    He described such a scenario where the two South Asian neighbours pursue an approach to resolve disputes and work on areas of convergences as the “most desirable.”

    He said the foreign secretaries of both countries would meet shortly to resume stalled peace process between the two nuclear powers and expressed confidence that Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif’s proposal of the Pakistani and Indian national security advisors establishing a mechanism for constant contact would be taken up positively.

    With obviously Kashmir in mind, Jilani emphasized that “settlement of disputes in accordance with international legality will establish permanent peace” in the region.

    http://www.nation.com.pk/national/25...ks-says-jilani
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    Re: Pakistan, India have revived ‘back-channel’ talks, says Jilani

    Would logically be the correct way forward yet there are state actors on both sides voicing objection. Very frustrating.

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    Pak-India peace process should be uninterrupted: Jalil

    WASHINGTON: Pakistan desires to pursue an uninterrupted peace process with India that addresses causes of outstanding disputes and "not just symptoms" for achievement of durable peace in South Asia, Islamabad's ambassador to the United States Jalil Abbas Jilani said Tuesday.

    He described such a scenario where the two South Asian neighbours pursue an approach to resolve disputes and work on areas of convergences as the "most desirable".

    Ambassador Jilani was speaking at the Carnegie Endowment for Peace on a discourse on Pakistan-India relations, moderated by George Perkovich, Vice President for Studies at the think tank.

    The ambassador's remarks referred to the Jammu and Kashmir dispute and other issues including Siachen, Sir Creek and water disputes that were part of the composite dialogue between the two countries. He underscored that need for addressing these issues peacefully through a political approach.

    He said the foreign secretaries of both countries would meet shortly to resume stalled peace process between the two nuclear powers and expressed confidence that Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif's proposal of the Pakistani and Indian national security advisors establishing a mechanism for constant contact would be taken up positively.

    The top Pakistani diplomat in Washington said an uninterrupted process should allow both countries to encourage peace constituencies on both sides.

    He emphasized that 'settlement of disputes in accordance with international legality will establish permanent peace' in the region.

    Referring to the respective agendas of Prime Minister Sharif and his Indian counterpart Narendra Modi on economic revival and peace, the ambassador said the understanding reached between the two leaders during their recent contacts to revive peace process generates hope.

    "That would be a first step towards creating a cooperative and tension-free relationship between the two countries," he said of the revival of the peace process.

    In response to questions, Ambassador Jilani said both sides should work address each other's concerns including the issue of militancy and Pakistan's concerns regarding Indian involvement in stoking unrest in Balochistan.

    On the positive side, he said, the trade between the two countries has increased and may touch $ 5 billion mark by 2015. On Islamabad granting Indian most favored nation status, he said, the two sides will work on this matter as the dialogue process resumes.

    The ambassador also noted a marked improvement in Pakistan-U.S. relations. The event was attended by think tank experts and South Asian scholars. In response to a question by Dr. Nisar Chaudhry, President Pakistan American League, Ambassador Jilani said Prime Minister Sharif genuinely wants to foster peace with both neighbors India and Afghanistan and the neighbours.

    http://paktribune.com/news/Pak-India...il-269928.html
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    Re: Pak-India peace process should be uninterrupted: Jalil

    there should be peace but we shouldn,t include america in any process.
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    Re: Pak-India peace process should be uninterrupted: Jalil

    Quote Originally Posted by Hadeed View Post
    there should be peace but we shouldn,t include america in any process.
    I think we've been wanting to include the US in the peace process before, but I don't think the US is interested in getting involved anymore.
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    Re: Pak-India peace process should be uninterrupted: Jalil

    Quote Originally Posted by Hadeed View Post
    there should be peace but we shouldn,t include america in any process.
    Why not could you explain?

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    Re: Pak-India peace process should be uninterrupted: Jalil

    Quote Originally Posted by T-123456 View Post
    Why not could you explain?
    Because america doesn,t wan,t any peace,if both countries reached an agreement,then they would decrease their arm imports and america doesn,t wan,t this as it means "loss for it,s military/security complex".
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    Re: Pak-India peace process should be uninterrupted: Jalil

    Quote Originally Posted by T-123456 View Post
    Why not could you explain?
    USA have no desire for peace. Only personal interest and personal goals. India and Pakistan are the 2 nations that must bang their heads together.
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    Re: Pakistan - India relations

    [MENTION=7727]Hadeed[/MENTION] [MENTION=406]ManojKumar[/MENTION] ,things have changed for the US.
    For them China is the big threat,they will do anything to try to bring Pakistan and India to the table for real lasting peace(Kashmir).
    After all,it would be in their interest if they could bring Pakistan on to their side.
    Not that Pakistan would ever turn its back on China,but the US will try.
    Maybe the US could help bring peace between both countries,be it with alter motives,what do you guys think of that scenario?
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    Re: Pakistan - India relations

    Quote Originally Posted by T-123456 View Post
    [MENTION=7727]Hadeed[/MENTION] [MENTION=406]ManojKumar[/MENTION] ,things have changed for the US.
    For them China is the big threat,they will do anything to try to bring Pakistan and India to the table for real lasting peace(Kashmir).
    After all,it would be in their interest if they could bring Pakistan on to their side.
    Not that Pakistan would ever turn its back on China,but the US will try.
    Maybe the US could help bring peace between both countries,be it with alter motives,what do you guys think of that scenario?
    Indeed constraining China is order of the day. USA are on rocky shores with Pakistan and their input into Pak - Ind relations would be regarded as plastic and only self serving. BTW i think USA realize that Pakistan in particular are too long in the tooth to let them assist in mediation.
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    Re: Pakistan - India relations

    Quote Originally Posted by T-123456 View Post
    [MENTION=7727]Hadeed[/MENTION] [MENTION=406]ManojKumar[/MENTION] ,things have changed for the US.
    For them China is the big threat,they will do anything to try to bring Pakistan and India to the table for real lasting peace(Kashmir).
    After all,it would be in their interest if they could bring Pakistan on to their side.
    Not that Pakistan would ever turn its back on China,but the US will try.
    Maybe the US could help bring peace between both countries,be it with alter motives,what do you guys think of that scenario?
    this scenario is also possible,but then again......

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    Elite Member T-123456's Avatar
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    Re: Pakistan - India relations

    Quote Originally Posted by Superkaif View Post
    Indeed constraining China is order of the day. USA are on rocky shores with Pakistan and their input into Pak - Ind relations would be regarded as plastic and only self serving. BTW i think USA realize that Pakistan in particular are too long in the tooth to let them assist in mediation.
    ''We come with gifts''!some OHPs,Supercobras,etc,you like?
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    Re: Pakistan - India relations

    Quote Originally Posted by T-123456 View Post
    ''We come with gifts''!some OHPs,Supercobras,etc,you like?
    That could oil teh wheels
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    Re: Pakistan - India relations

    Quote Originally Posted by T-123456 View Post
    ''We come with gifts''!some OHPs,Supercobras,etc,you like?
    any jelly beans? Sharif would kill for some jelly beans.
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  20. #20
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    India’s Pakistan groove

    Fresh from a recent Track II event with India, what abides from the engagement are the four ‘Ts’ that make India’s policy towards Pakistan: Terrorism, Trial, Trade and Transit. You could actually club these into two subheads — terrorism and trade — the two planks that India is willing to anchor its engagement with Pakistan on. Oh yes, Pakistan too could add subjects of interest in a proposed agenda for engagement, and the Indians might even give Pakistan a hearing on those, but to them what will Tango will but be based on the two or four that are of prime interest to them. You could else dance a Samba for all they care, or a Flamingo if you please.

    Terrorism first. If the earlier manifestation of their concerns on terrorism centered around Mumbai, and what got officially repeated the world over by them, cross-border terrorism — now has newer mutations. The Line of Control (LoC) takes the prime spot; and this is based around the 2013 spat across the LoC that went on for a better part of 10 months. Without a doubt, the 2003 ceasefire across the LoC was a key confidence-building measure that sustained a sense of normalcy between the two nuclear neighbours, but what remained enigmatic was its 10-month long negation by both sides even as they alternated barbs of fire with words — sans a political or a military objective.
    But then nothing in this historic land of poetic imagination comes without a method.

    Simply put, the Indians were preparing grounds to pre-empt a speculative induction of the militant groups into Kashmir — a la 1989 — as the war in Afghanistan drew down with the departure of the US/ISAF, raising the possibility that those employed there would soon need to find a newer occupation. Hence, the intended conflation of both cross-border terrorism and the eruption of the LoC, and the obvious coining of it as Pakistan’s preparatory manoeuvre to re-enact and exploit a past Indian vulnerability.
    Without a neutral body to ascertain facts, such allegations fly with little check. Pakistan feels that India violated and vitiated the relative calm on the LoC to make a pre-emptory case for such an apprehension that at best was only speculative and imagined.

    The fact is that 2014 is not 1989; and the strategic context is a lot different. Incidents of cross-border intrusions are far less and have gone down considerably according to India’s own record of such events; as are indeed recorded incidents of militancy-related violence, which have come down infinitesimally in Kashmir compared to 2003. In this Track II, Herat — where the Indian consulate was attacked on the day that Narendra Modi was inaugurated in Delhi — was consistently repeated as an exhibit of Pakistan’s collusion with terror; without for a moment recognising the possibility of other agents who would rather see any effort at rapprochement change back to confrontation simply to divert Pakistan’s focus away from its operation in North Waziristan. India’s characterisation of Pakistan is not only stuck in a groove, it remains patently insidious.

    On to trade then. Without a doubt, trade is the modern equivalent to familial bonding that used to come with intermarriages among ruling families of competing states. Through such relationships, one bought influence while leveraging stakes. In the India-Pakistan context though, the amount that such trade will add to India’s GDP, by one account, will be minute. That is to reinforce, if you missed the point, that really, trade too is a favour that India makes for Pakistan. The current trade figures of around $2.7 billion will be augmented to a figure of around $10 billion even if all trade is made free and without any accompanying barriers. The experts are quick to point out that this too shall only be the regularisation of the indirect trade that goes on at around $5 billion, through Dubai mostly.

    They also suggest that trade — like water — will find its own course in due time and will regulate in volume depending on the space it finds. ‘Space’ is the operative word here; ‘finding’ it in India is the crux. What will remain a challenge will be to dampen traders’ excitement with producers’ interests, which really means that uninhibited trade will only enrich traders while impoverishing producers. Indian experts sweeten the theory of free trade with the possibility of creating a value chain where all linked can create a specialised niche brought together elsewhere as a product. Translated, it means India will assemble while the rest of the world will provide the parts. It took decades before the European Union reached that level of interdependence, and then with a capacity matrix in technology that more or less mirrored each other. Before that, they became a Union. South Asia, in comparison, remains the least integrated region in the world.

    What will interest Pakistan in trading with India is an accompanying treaty on investments that should permit each to invest in other’s economy; to begin with, in preferred areas, before gradually expanding the portfolio of choices. But $10 billion and 0.1 per cent of GDP-rise is not what India is so persistently chasing with Pakistan. To her, trade with Pakistan is akin to breaking into a closed system where when apprehensions are fairly soothed and Indian presence is a matter of fact, the door to riches ‘beyond Afghanistan’ will open. It isn’t only the oil and gas in Central Asia that India will covet, or the market that the stans have on offer; it is the accompanying influence that charts India’s geopolitical rise in the region. It will then compete with China in Central Asia, recreate the magic of a Silk Route relationship, and establish its credentials as a bonafide contender in the larger game of dividends.

    Neither then it is ‘transit’ to Afghanistan alone India so vehemently pursues. Both Pakistan and Afghanistan are but ‘two serial keys’ to the grander opening beyond. At this Track II, Pakistan linked what India seeks as ‘deliverables’ to what Pakistan seeks as ‘dividends’. The two henceforth will move in unison. The plate on that count remains hopelessly empty with numerous Indo-Pak issues still begging resolution. Corollary: Pakistan ain’t letting India in on Afghanistan any time soon. It has its interests to secure. ‘Deliverables’ and ‘dividends’ are inalienably linked.

    Published in The Express Tribune, June 28th, 2014.

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